1 00:00:10,970 --> 00:00:02,180 this is james randi and you're listening 2 00:00:13,850 --> 00:00:10,980 to the skeptic zone welcome to the 3 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:13,860 skeptic zone the podcast from Australia 4 00:00:24,420 --> 00:00:17,970 for science and reason yuria hosts 5 00:00:34,950 --> 00:00:32,339 oh hello hello Richard who you it's 6 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:34,960 Stephanie remember your old co-host on 7 00:00:40,020 --> 00:00:38,530 way back oh yeah yep Stefan yeah a nice 8 00:00:42,930 --> 00:00:40,030 to see you again it's been it's been a 9 00:00:45,180 --> 00:00:42,940 while you been I'm actually just come 10 00:00:46,890 --> 00:00:45,190 out of cryogenic freezing that's why we 11 00:00:48,990 --> 00:00:46,900 haven't heard from home screen up frozen 12 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:49,000 yell actually wedding in about six 13 00:00:51,900 --> 00:00:50,290 months ago I thought the world is dis 14 00:00:53,910 --> 00:00:51,910 yeah yeah tell us you're in the show 15 00:00:56,130 --> 00:00:53,920 about six months you get wasted and I 16 00:00:58,979 --> 00:00:56,140 should have let you know but I just you 17 00:01:00,270 --> 00:00:58,989 in a cryogenic freezer I genic freezing 18 00:01:03,090 --> 00:01:00,280 you because I'm gonna email you about 19 00:01:04,410 --> 00:01:03,100 about time and but another the world's 20 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:04,420 just in a terrible state affairs I'll 21 00:01:07,770 --> 00:01:06,130 just go to sleep for six months yeah 22 00:01:09,540 --> 00:01:07,780 wake up again it's even worse you 23 00:01:11,609 --> 00:01:09,550 shouldn't you should have it's even 24 00:01:14,070 --> 00:01:11,619 worse now but but it's good to be back 25 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:14,080 and especially I apparently I'll check 26 00:01:19,139 --> 00:01:15,490 my calendar oh yeah I was checking my 27 00:01:23,010 --> 00:01:19,149 diary it's show for show 400 can you 28 00:01:26,370 --> 00:01:23,020 believe it almost eight years ago eight 29 00:01:28,649 --> 00:01:26,380 years ago you and I SAT exactly where 30 00:01:31,230 --> 00:01:28,659 we're sitting here it's in the seriouser 31 00:01:33,300 --> 00:01:31,240 new world yeah yeah yeah incredible 32 00:01:35,250 --> 00:01:33,310 officer headquarters headquarters of the 33 00:01:36,899 --> 00:01:35,260 media conglomerate that is serious we 34 00:01:38,580 --> 00:01:36,909 said at this very desk you SAT right 35 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:38,590 there I right here we had the microphone 36 00:01:44,370 --> 00:01:41,170 ready and we said what did we say Stefon 37 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:44,380 I don't know I don't know yeah I do in 38 00:01:48,090 --> 00:01:46,090 fact this very vague recollection better 39 00:01:50,070 --> 00:01:48,100 probably we would have started with a 40 00:01:51,570 --> 00:01:50,080 theme song and the original theme yeah 41 00:01:58,540 --> 00:01:51,580 whatever you might have gone a little 42 00:02:00,910 --> 00:01:58,550 bit like this that's it 43 00:02:03,940 --> 00:02:00,920 seven least are tricky of the lands of 44 00:02:07,900 --> 00:02:03,950 the skip the podcast from astronauts in 45 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:07,910 space science and reason yuria hosts 46 00:02:15,610 --> 00:02:12,530 Richard Saunders and Stefan cyka I know 47 00:02:18,970 --> 00:02:15,620 what we said this is truly a miracle 48 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:18,980 which is we're back but Evan we aren't 49 00:02:23,350 --> 00:02:21,290 back this is amazing after all these 50 00:02:25,150 --> 00:02:23,360 years I put this how many years it'll 51 00:02:27,130 --> 00:02:25,160 take us to escape from the tank but 52 00:02:28,810 --> 00:02:27,140 angle so shall we did before I decade 53 00:02:31,030 --> 00:02:28,820 there it was last millennium so he 54 00:02:32,950 --> 00:02:31,040 sounds so yeah we do sony ericsson tank 55 00:02:35,230 --> 00:02:32,960 and we've gone into the zone you better 56 00:02:38,170 --> 00:02:35,240 stop that before we get there mr. Jacob 57 00:02:40,690 --> 00:02:38,180 outfits in line well that was us here 58 00:02:45,460 --> 00:02:40,700 sitting here eight years ago I I'm 59 00:02:47,530 --> 00:02:45,470 temporary temporarily dis dissonant 'add 60 00:02:49,450 --> 00:02:47,540 right now because I have no idea what 61 00:02:51,460 --> 00:02:49,460 what time zone I mean it's funny it's 62 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:51,470 like it's it's I don't know it's like 63 00:02:54,550 --> 00:02:53,210 hearing in ghosts we're sitting here in 64 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:54,560 the same spot hearing our own voices 65 00:03:01,030 --> 00:02:57,170 from the past 18 years ago that's right 66 00:03:03,910 --> 00:03:01,040 but now we're it's show 400 are you have 67 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:03,920 to say that sir it's an absolutely mmm 68 00:03:08,920 --> 00:03:06,890 huge effort of yours to actually have 69 00:03:10,660 --> 00:03:08,930 produced every single one of those used 70 00:03:12,220 --> 00:03:10,670 every single one of them without fail no 71 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:12,230 matter what you've got yeah yeah your 72 00:03:17,350 --> 00:03:13,850 life you have you've turned them out 73 00:03:18,940 --> 00:03:17,360 yeah what the hell oh I don't know what 74 00:03:20,949 --> 00:03:18,950 I'm thinking right awesome what are you 75 00:03:22,210 --> 00:03:20,959 thinking this week let me tell you what 76 00:03:23,530 --> 00:03:22,220 I'm thinking this week because it is a 77 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:23,540 show we can be get on with the show 78 00:03:27,460 --> 00:03:25,730 we're going to have lots of little 79 00:03:29,170 --> 00:03:27,470 things this week our main interview is 80 00:03:30,550 --> 00:03:29,180 with that would friend Michael Marshall 81 00:03:32,470 --> 00:03:30,560 who's in Liverpool from the good 82 00:03:34,390 --> 00:03:32,480 thinking society Liverpool in the UK of 83 00:03:36,430 --> 00:03:34,400 course this is a Liverpool here in 84 00:03:38,830 --> 00:03:36,440 Sydney oh there is I was only there the 85 00:03:40,479 --> 00:03:38,840 other day and he's going to be talking 86 00:03:44,770 --> 00:03:40,489 about a great victory they've had over 87 00:03:46,870 --> 00:03:44,780 homeopathy in the UK Oh bout time I met 88 00:03:48,729 --> 00:03:46,880 that's really under the I would like to 89 00:03:50,199 --> 00:03:48,739 hear pressure yes yes that's coming out 90 00:03:52,060 --> 00:03:50,209 lets our feature interview we've also 91 00:03:54,610 --> 00:03:52,070 got things coming up this week we're 92 00:03:58,090 --> 00:03:54,620 going to be introducing our new reporter 93 00:03:59,979 --> 00:03:58,100 a new word reporter show 400 absolutely 94 00:04:02,440 --> 00:03:59,989 very exciting you'll meet her a bit 95 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:02,450 later on in the show ah what else is 96 00:04:07,990 --> 00:04:05,930 coming up on this week's show I was just 97 00:04:10,030 --> 00:04:08,000 yesterday I went to the supernova 98 00:04:11,559 --> 00:04:10,040 science fiction and fan fantasy sort of 99 00:04:14,770 --> 00:04:11,569 convention here in salon 100 00:04:16,990 --> 00:04:14,780 is Hugh yes I would I went there years 101 00:04:19,150 --> 00:04:17,000 ago many many years ago you know 102 00:04:21,310 --> 00:04:19,160 reporting for us cryogenically frozen is 103 00:04:23,350 --> 00:04:21,320 and it was it was it was pretty big then 104 00:04:25,749 --> 00:04:23,360 how could it be much it's whatever it 105 00:04:29,230 --> 00:04:25,759 was back then it's much bigger now and 106 00:04:32,170 --> 00:04:29,240 what a great day we had so myself may 107 00:04:34,029 --> 00:04:32,180 not and Tim Ferguson Oh from the dog 108 00:04:36,129 --> 00:04:34,039 Anthony all-stars the legend who does 109 00:04:37,930 --> 00:04:36,139 that who does the bunga bunga podcast 110 00:04:39,969 --> 00:04:37,940 with mean always made up that's an Tim 111 00:04:42,070 --> 00:04:39,979 comes on the skeptic zone every now and 112 00:04:44,140 --> 00:04:42,080 then to say hello and so we do a little 113 00:04:46,779 --> 00:04:44,150 bit from supernova which is really 114 00:04:48,850 --> 00:04:46,789 fantastic ah and also we've got an 115 00:04:50,860 --> 00:04:48,860 update on a report we had last week 116 00:04:53,020 --> 00:04:50,870 about the Australian lab Labour Party's 117 00:04:56,170 --> 00:04:53,030 promise in the upcoming election to cut 118 00:04:58,300 --> 00:04:56,180 funding subsidies to iridology and 119 00:04:59,770 --> 00:04:58,310 arrest alrighty that's like without a 120 00:05:01,510 --> 00:04:59,780 nap time I mean I can't even believe 121 00:05:04,420 --> 00:05:01,520 they started fighting him in the first 122 00:05:05,830 --> 00:05:04,430 place is we're gonna cut funding well 123 00:05:09,460 --> 00:05:05,840 what do you been doing for the last 10 124 00:05:13,570 --> 00:05:09,470 years running a funding of yeah and oh I 125 00:05:17,379 --> 00:05:13,580 won't listeners to to notice to know 126 00:05:19,089 --> 00:05:17,389 that I am the guest rogue on the 127 00:05:21,670 --> 00:05:19,099 skeptics guide to the universe right now 128 00:05:23,710 --> 00:05:21,680 is that the episode that comes out the 129 00:05:25,570 --> 00:05:23,720 same days of skellige even as we spin as 130 00:05:27,580 --> 00:05:25,580 we speak alright so multi-dimensional 131 00:05:30,939 --> 00:05:27,590 world really but but that's their 132 00:05:33,310 --> 00:05:30,949 episode 571 are you but they probably 133 00:05:35,980 --> 00:05:33,320 cheated something they probably skipped 134 00:05:37,990 --> 00:05:35,990 a hundred or something just to try and 135 00:05:39,100 --> 00:05:38,000 get in front of us but now that was good 136 00:05:41,110 --> 00:05:39,110 that was good to be on the skeptics 137 00:05:43,629 --> 00:05:41,120 guide the universe now Stefan before we 138 00:05:45,100 --> 00:05:43,639 get stuck into the show so does mean I 139 00:05:47,710 --> 00:05:45,110 want to bring our listeners up to date 140 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:47,720 on an interesting story that's been 141 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:50,090 brought to our attention again about the 142 00:05:54,850 --> 00:05:52,610 upcoming election here in Australia oh 143 00:05:57,730 --> 00:05:54,860 yeah now there's a party who are running 144 00:05:59,409 --> 00:05:57,740 a Senate candidate here in the state of 145 00:06:01,899 --> 00:05:59,419 New South Wales in the federal election 146 00:06:04,270 --> 00:06:01,909 called i think was it the health party 147 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:04,280 australia pile for straddle party that 148 00:06:09,670 --> 00:06:06,650 sounds very healthy wonderful does it 149 00:06:11,770 --> 00:06:09,680 held Australia now they have because 150 00:06:15,339 --> 00:06:11,780 it's ran I believe it's a random process 151 00:06:17,469 --> 00:06:15,349 they have their party is the very first 152 00:06:19,810 --> 00:06:17,479 one on the ballot paper I've drawn pole 153 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:19,820 position oppositional a paper and a lot 154 00:06:23,370 --> 00:06:21,770 of people unfortunately when they go to 155 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:23,380 vote they turn up and then 156 00:06:28,170 --> 00:06:26,890 let's go what they don't care right so 157 00:06:31,950 --> 00:06:28,180 they'll write at one in the top position 158 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:31,960 that's right and the warning years this 159 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:34,570 party is is not all that it might seem 160 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:36,970 and we've got a clip that was on TV just 161 00:06:40,980 --> 00:06:38,170 the other day on the ABC the drum 162 00:06:43,050 --> 00:06:40,990 program you say that it is a Cheryl 163 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:43,060 colonel who who used to be the head of 164 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:45,730 the Australian Democrats yeah which what 165 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:48,250 they had their day a man she's ever 166 00:06:52,650 --> 00:06:50,410 anyway let's have a listen exposure 167 00:06:54,690 --> 00:06:52,660 alert my pay attention please when you 168 00:06:57,720 --> 00:06:54,700 go to vote for the center in your South 169 00:06:59,820 --> 00:06:57,730 Wales because the party which got the 170 00:07:01,380 --> 00:06:59,830 number one spot so that's where you vote 171 00:07:03,510 --> 00:07:01,390 across or whether you go to fill in 172 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:03,520 underneath is called the health 173 00:07:10,100 --> 00:07:07,570 Australia party and you might be deluded 174 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:10,110 you might be misled into thinking that 175 00:07:14,790 --> 00:07:12,850 they stand for all things healthy but in 176 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:14,800 fact they are opposed to standard 177 00:07:21,330 --> 00:07:18,250 immunization for children preferring 178 00:07:23,190 --> 00:07:21,340 homeopathic immunization and saying that 179 00:07:25,980 --> 00:07:23,200 it claiming it it has ninety percent 180 00:07:28,260 --> 00:07:25,990 rate of effectiveness now you know I 181 00:07:30,390 --> 00:07:28,270 would hate to see one person with those 182 00:07:32,010 --> 00:07:30,400 beliefs holding the balance of power in 183 00:07:33,750 --> 00:07:32,020 the Senate and nobody knows how those 184 00:07:35,430 --> 00:07:33,760 numbers are going to turn out and how 185 00:07:37,020 --> 00:07:35,440 much of an advantage doesn't give a 186 00:07:39,030 --> 00:07:37,030 candidate to have that number one spot 187 00:07:40,650 --> 00:07:39,040 on the ballot there are still people who 188 00:07:43,470 --> 00:07:40,660 think you only have to vote one I'm 189 00:07:45,270 --> 00:07:43,480 sorry to say that might help people who 190 00:07:47,460 --> 00:07:45,280 don't care they just go in and I said 191 00:07:51,300 --> 00:07:47,470 David leyonhjelm was elected from that 192 00:07:52,410 --> 00:07:51,310 position so yes a she talked about some 193 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:52,420 other things with that the important 194 00:07:55,710 --> 00:07:53,770 message is people in New South Wales 195 00:07:58,740 --> 00:07:55,720 when you go to vote and you get your 196 00:08:00,570 --> 00:07:58,750 Senate paper please bear in mind the one 197 00:08:02,850 --> 00:08:00,580 number one position on the paper is this 198 00:08:05,700 --> 00:08:02,860 party who are anything but a health 199 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:05,710 party mmm but but then again Richard up 200 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:07,810 I mean they may have crazy views about 201 00:08:11,460 --> 00:08:09,490 about the immunization but the other 202 00:08:13,260 --> 00:08:11,470 policies could be absolutely fantastic 203 00:08:17,580 --> 00:08:13,270 you might be right there thing could be 204 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:17,590 just an anomaly in your thinking I'd 205 00:08:22,770 --> 00:08:21,250 hate to see the other anomalies okay 206 00:08:24,030 --> 00:08:22,780 well that's that's a good morning so 207 00:08:26,250 --> 00:08:24,040 anything else you want to say before we 208 00:08:28,260 --> 00:08:26,260 kick off with this show number 400 no 209 00:08:29,730 --> 00:08:28,270 Stefan I can't think of anything else 210 00:08:31,770 --> 00:08:29,740 except that you and I should run 211 00:08:34,380 --> 00:08:31,780 downstairs to and raid your kitchen ah 212 00:08:34,850 --> 00:08:34,390 well that is used to be a very regular 213 00:08:37,459 --> 00:08:34,860 thing 214 00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:37,469 then I believe you have a pawn Sean for 215 00:08:41,930 --> 00:08:40,110 peanut butter I remember now that would 216 00:08:43,969 --> 00:08:41,940 I used to come around here and do other 217 00:08:45,710 --> 00:08:43,979 work and things I'd always for lunch 218 00:08:48,199 --> 00:08:45,720 time I'd run down and raid your peanut 219 00:08:50,210 --> 00:08:48,209 peanut butter sandwich if you're quite 220 00:08:51,949 --> 00:08:50,220 welcome to let's get this get the show 221 00:08:53,449 --> 00:08:51,959 on we'll take your little break how will 222 00:08:56,060 --> 00:08:53,459 the peanut butter let's do that while 223 00:08:58,970 --> 00:08:56,070 we're doing that we hope you enjoy the 224 00:09:00,710 --> 00:08:58,980 skeptic zone show 400 and I must say 225 00:09:02,900 --> 00:09:00,720 after being cryogenically frozen for six 226 00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:02,910 months I am famished let's get a feed 227 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:30,309 and joining me now all the way from 228 00:09:34,210 --> 00:09:32,689 Liverpool as he does from time to time 229 00:09:36,579 --> 00:09:34,220 and aren't we glad to have him i think 230 00:09:38,710 --> 00:09:36,589 he is an honorary skeptic zone reporter 231 00:09:40,780 --> 00:09:38,720 whether he likes it or not it's our good 232 00:09:42,609 --> 00:09:40,790 friend Michael Marshall hello my hi 233 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:42,619 Richard hi hi to all the skeptics on 234 00:09:45,999 --> 00:09:43,850 listeners yeah i do come on the show 235 00:09:48,069 --> 00:09:46,009 from time to time it's a it's always a 236 00:09:49,989 --> 00:09:48,079 pleasure to be able to speak to two 237 00:09:52,269 --> 00:09:49,999 skeptics down under relief well a 238 00:09:54,999 --> 00:09:52,279 pleasure indeed and you'll be able to do 239 00:09:56,350 --> 00:09:55,009 it in person yet again let's talk about 240 00:09:58,179 --> 00:09:56,360 this briefly you're going to be a 241 00:10:00,790 --> 00:09:58,189 special guest at our upcoming convention 242 00:10:02,739 --> 00:10:00,800 which is in Melbourne this year how 243 00:10:05,319 --> 00:10:02,749 exciting is that because are you made a 244 00:10:07,239 --> 00:10:05,329 great impact when you were here who was 245 00:10:09,429 --> 00:10:07,249 it at the end of 2014 when we had our 246 00:10:11,949 --> 00:10:09,439 big convention in Sydney this year 247 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:11,959 you'll be in Melbourne yeah that's right 248 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:13,970 i mean i absolutely loved coming down to 249 00:10:18,429 --> 00:10:16,490 to sydney fur for the conference you had 250 00:10:19,929 --> 00:10:18,439 there in 2014 so there I've been 251 00:10:22,090 --> 00:10:19,939 fortunate enough that the Melbourne guys 252 00:10:24,549 --> 00:10:22,100 have invited me back and I really can't 253 00:10:26,319 --> 00:10:24,559 wait i mean i really enjoyed seeing the 254 00:10:28,749 --> 00:10:26,329 parts of Australia that i did and 255 00:10:30,429 --> 00:10:28,759 meeting so many people i think the 256 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:30,439 australian skeptics are amongst my 257 00:10:34,119 --> 00:10:31,970 favorite skeptics in the world I think 258 00:10:36,869 --> 00:10:34,129 you guys really have got the the sort of 259 00:10:39,220 --> 00:10:36,879 the style of things and the passion and 260 00:10:40,809 --> 00:10:39,230 thinks it's get this isn't that that 261 00:10:42,639 --> 00:10:40,819 really fits the kind of stuff that I do 262 00:10:45,579 --> 00:10:42,649 so yeah I really can't wait to meet 263 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:45,589 everybody again mantastic did you when 264 00:10:49,509 --> 00:10:46,730 you here last time did you get a chance 265 00:10:51,639 --> 00:10:49,519 to visit Melbourne I didn't I didn't I 266 00:10:53,949 --> 00:10:51,649 went to Sydney and I went to Brisbane 267 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:53,959 but I didn't get anywhere else I'll be 268 00:10:57,340 --> 00:10:55,490 nice to see somewhere you know slightly 269 00:10:58,869 --> 00:10:57,350 different and I hear very very good 270 00:11:00,939 --> 00:10:58,879 things about Melbourne Melbourne is 271 00:11:03,009 --> 00:11:00,949 fantastic what a beautiful city it's 272 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:03,019 it's just full of culture and 273 00:11:07,119 --> 00:11:04,850 interesting things and the Melbourne 274 00:11:09,039 --> 00:11:07,129 people there the Victorian skeptics and 275 00:11:11,079 --> 00:11:09,049 the Melbourne skeptics in the pub and 276 00:11:12,910 --> 00:11:11,089 there's lots of groups in the state of 277 00:11:14,769 --> 00:11:12,920 victoria skeptical groups that are very 278 00:11:16,509 --> 00:11:14,779 active and i'm sure you'll be meeting 279 00:11:18,309 --> 00:11:16,519 all of those people coming up it's 280 00:11:21,309 --> 00:11:18,319 another reason folks listening to this 281 00:11:22,689 --> 00:11:21,319 here in australia to run to the website 282 00:11:24,220 --> 00:11:22,699 which I'll tell you about a little bit 283 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:24,230 later in the show and get your tickets 284 00:11:29,870 --> 00:11:26,610 for the Australian skeptics convince 285 00:11:31,579 --> 00:11:29,880 and you can meet Marsh in person I mean 286 00:11:33,410 --> 00:11:31,589 you can't go you just can't get better 287 00:11:34,370 --> 00:11:33,420 than that you know I mean you can meet 288 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:34,380 all the other people who are speaking 289 00:11:37,940 --> 00:11:35,970 there too which is which if anything is 290 00:11:39,889 --> 00:11:37,950 more impressive I'm quite an impressive 291 00:11:42,230 --> 00:11:39,899 person in person but i'll be there and 292 00:11:43,220 --> 00:11:42,240 be happy to to meet any anybody who 293 00:11:44,690 --> 00:11:43,230 wants to come up and have a chat and 294 00:11:46,550 --> 00:11:44,700 that was the thing i really loved in 295 00:11:48,410 --> 00:11:46,560 sydney was just having people come on up 296 00:11:50,540 --> 00:11:48,420 and just just having a chat from people 297 00:11:52,670 --> 00:11:50,550 from all sorts of difficult or starts of 298 00:11:55,100 --> 00:11:52,680 different interests and just showing you 299 00:11:56,870 --> 00:11:55,110 how kind of bum vibrant and lively the 300 00:11:58,430 --> 00:11:56,880 skeptical community is I love that I 301 00:12:00,019 --> 00:11:58,440 really do love these conferences you 302 00:12:01,910 --> 00:12:00,029 know obviously I put a conference up in 303 00:12:03,380 --> 00:12:01,920 Manchester in the UK and I love just 304 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:03,390 getting so many different people with 305 00:12:07,220 --> 00:12:05,490 sewage interesting skepticism passion 306 00:12:09,710 --> 00:12:07,230 and enthusiasm you get these people 307 00:12:11,780 --> 00:12:09,720 together and it's it's that we're all in 308 00:12:13,759 --> 00:12:11,790 this this weird thing that we do 309 00:12:15,500 --> 00:12:13,769 together and I think that spirit that 310 00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:15,510 really comes comes through in in 311 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:17,279 conferences like my born in Sydney and 312 00:12:21,019 --> 00:12:19,170 I'm sure Mel gonna be exactly this in no 313 00:12:22,639 --> 00:12:21,029 absolutely yes absolutely I've been to 314 00:12:25,190 --> 00:12:22,649 many conventions in Melbourne over the 315 00:12:27,860 --> 00:12:25,200 years and they're always a highlight and 316 00:12:29,389 --> 00:12:27,870 they do a terrific job and while we're 317 00:12:31,759 --> 00:12:29,399 on the subject to conventions you 318 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:31,769 mention it briefly then QED of course 319 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:33,690 I've had the pleasure and what a 320 00:12:39,980 --> 00:12:36,930 pleasure want of speaking there twice 321 00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:39,990 two years running I found myself in in 322 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:42,480 Manchester for QED and it's certainly 323 00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:44,850 one of the better convention skeptical 324 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:47,360 conventions going when is it this year 325 00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:50,850 so this year it's October the 14th to 326 00:12:55,730 --> 00:12:52,800 the 16th after the friday saturday 327 00:12:57,710 --> 00:12:55,740 sunday and yes it's a little bit of a 328 00:12:59,930 --> 00:12:57,720 different different style to QD this 329 00:13:02,269 --> 00:12:59,940 year normally we have the the main stage 330 00:13:03,650 --> 00:13:02,279 with all our speakers doing a normal 331 00:13:05,090 --> 00:13:03,660 talk and then we've got a panel room 332 00:13:07,790 --> 00:13:05,100 that runs at the same time so you've got 333 00:13:09,050 --> 00:13:07,800 this terrible choice of the agency but 334 00:13:11,060 --> 00:13:09,060 this year we're actually adding a third 335 00:13:14,090 --> 00:13:11,070 choice in because we got a podcast room 336 00:13:15,949 --> 00:13:14,100 that's going the whole time too so we're 337 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:15,959 really giving people some pretty tough 338 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:17,490 coaches what it really means is that 339 00:13:20,900 --> 00:13:19,410 whichever room you end up in no be 340 00:13:22,250 --> 00:13:20,910 something really interesting to see and 341 00:13:23,389 --> 00:13:22,260 that's the way to look at it isn't about 342 00:13:25,069 --> 00:13:23,399 what you're missing what about the 343 00:13:29,060 --> 00:13:25,079 things you get to see I seem to remember 344 00:13:30,829 --> 00:13:29,070 when I was there cheering a panel and it 345 00:13:32,300 --> 00:13:30,839 occurred to me when I was looking at the 346 00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:32,310 program that I was chairing this panel 347 00:13:35,329 --> 00:13:34,110 that's fine and I looked at that oh I'd 348 00:13:37,070 --> 00:13:35,339 rather be in the other room watching 349 00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:37,080 something 350 00:13:42,060 --> 00:13:40,000 yeah I get that myself because I run a 351 00:13:43,980 --> 00:13:42,070 few panels here at there and yeah it's 352 00:13:45,570 --> 00:13:43,990 always I try and manipulate the 353 00:13:47,070 --> 00:13:45,580 scheduling stuff not it's something I 354 00:13:48,300 --> 00:13:47,080 really want to see but the problem is up 355 00:13:50,579 --> 00:13:48,310 we put so much things on that I'd quite 356 00:13:52,110 --> 00:13:50,589 like to see that practically I never get 357 00:13:53,820 --> 00:13:52,120 a chance to see any of it anyway as one 358 00:13:55,139 --> 00:13:53,830 of the organizers but you always have 359 00:13:57,090 --> 00:13:55,149 you know really great things and they 360 00:13:58,650 --> 00:13:57,100 should be hopefully something like 600 361 00:14:00,180 --> 00:13:58,660 people there this year so it's been 362 00:14:01,620 --> 00:14:00,190 growing your own yard it's a it's 363 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:01,630 getting pretty big really well I think 364 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:03,730 I'd better run some promotions for that 365 00:14:08,850 --> 00:14:06,010 soon I'll talk to you later Marsh about 366 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:08,860 that but let's let's get back to what I 367 00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:10,810 really contacted you about and this is 368 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:13,570 very exciting news and we mentioned it 369 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:15,130 briefly on the last episode of the 370 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:17,890 skeptic zone news about homeopathy but 371 00:14:22,230 --> 00:14:19,450 i'll let you take it away Marsh because 372 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:22,240 this is a really good news and I think 373 00:14:26,940 --> 00:14:24,570 it's going to lead to really good things 374 00:14:28,290 --> 00:14:26,950 yeah I certainly hope so it's it's 375 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:28,300 really the culmination of something that 376 00:14:32,100 --> 00:14:29,890 we've been working on with the good 377 00:14:33,660 --> 00:14:32,110 thinking society the charity that I work 378 00:14:35,850 --> 00:14:33,670 for we've been working this from maybe 379 00:14:38,430 --> 00:14:35,860 about two years but yesterday as we 380 00:14:39,810 --> 00:14:38,440 recording this Liverpool Clinical 381 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:39,820 Commissioning group which is local NHS 382 00:14:43,470 --> 00:14:42,370 our local Health Service has announced 383 00:14:46,260 --> 00:14:43,480 that they're going to stop funding 384 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:46,270 homeopathy and this is a really 385 00:14:51,569 --> 00:14:48,610 significant move because in the country 386 00:14:53,819 --> 00:14:51,579 there are maybe there's about 29 of 387 00:14:57,150 --> 00:14:53,829 these different health bodies called 388 00:14:58,860 --> 00:14:57,160 CCGs and there's really only about 25 of 389 00:15:00,840 --> 00:14:58,870 them are fewer that actually still fund 390 00:15:03,389 --> 00:15:00,850 homeopathy so it's been it's been 391 00:15:05,310 --> 00:15:03,399 tailing off and declining for a good 392 00:15:08,730 --> 00:15:05,320 number of years but the ones that were 393 00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:08,740 still left had a real tenacity it for 394 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:10,720 various reasons of that that homeopathy 395 00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:12,490 service staying so it was actually in 396 00:15:19,260 --> 00:15:16,510 febuary 2015 that good thinking brought 397 00:15:20,639 --> 00:15:19,270 to liverpool ccg to say you're still 398 00:15:22,230 --> 00:15:20,649 funding homeopathy you've just made this 399 00:15:23,639 --> 00:15:22,240 decision to fund it and we're looking at 400 00:15:25,319 --> 00:15:23,649 this decision and we don't think you've 401 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:25,329 you've acted within the law we think 402 00:15:29,940 --> 00:15:27,610 you've actually L acted unlawfully there 403 00:15:31,889 --> 00:15:29,950 in the way you're spending public money 404 00:15:33,060 --> 00:15:31,899 we think the consultation was really 405 00:15:34,980 --> 00:15:33,070 flawed so we think you could have 406 00:15:36,329 --> 00:15:34,990 another look at this and i forgot the 407 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:36,339 months of back and forth they agreed 408 00:15:39,630 --> 00:15:37,570 with us that they needed to have another 409 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:39,640 look at it so it's taken all the way 410 00:15:42,930 --> 00:15:41,770 since then of us being in contact with 411 00:15:44,939 --> 00:15:42,940 them and helping them put the 412 00:15:48,269 --> 00:15:44,949 consultation together and being part of 413 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:48,279 that but so yesterday's result really is 414 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:49,930 a combination of two you 415 00:15:52,860 --> 00:15:51,250 as worth of work for the good thinking 416 00:15:54,450 --> 00:15:52,870 society probably seven years worth of 417 00:15:56,220 --> 00:15:54,460 work doing little bits of pressure here 418 00:15:58,110 --> 00:15:56,230 and there by the Merseyside skeptics 419 00:16:00,570 --> 00:15:58,120 society that I obviously co run as well 420 00:16:03,180 --> 00:16:00,580 so yet so it's a really great moment not 421 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:03,190 just for Liverpool but the fact is this 422 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:06,490 is a marker that's on the neck ccg 423 00:16:10,470 --> 00:16:08,170 that's reviewing it is just over the 424 00:16:12,329 --> 00:16:10,480 water from Liverpool we can use the same 425 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:12,339 kind of process and point the loophole 426 00:16:16,050 --> 00:16:14,050 decision and we can write to all the 427 00:16:18,210 --> 00:16:16,060 other CCGs that fund homeopathy and say 428 00:16:20,430 --> 00:16:18,220 Liverpool's making a step away from it 429 00:16:21,810 --> 00:16:20,440 it's time for you to do the same and we 430 00:16:23,430 --> 00:16:21,820 think this could be something where we 431 00:16:26,670 --> 00:16:23,440 can we can roll it from one to the next 432 00:16:28,889 --> 00:16:26,680 and really put really get homeopathy on 433 00:16:30,570 --> 00:16:28,899 the run and off the NHS so we can 434 00:16:32,579 --> 00:16:30,580 actually spend the money that we're 435 00:16:35,190 --> 00:16:32,589 currently waiting on homeopathy on stuff 436 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:35,200 that actually works you know what I just 437 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:36,610 occurred to me listening to you know I 438 00:16:41,340 --> 00:16:39,250 really love about this is you've 439 00:16:43,110 --> 00:16:41,350 probably heard the same and I bet some 440 00:16:44,639 --> 00:16:43,120 of our listeners have heard the same too 441 00:16:46,740 --> 00:16:44,649 it's the old argument you get from 442 00:16:48,900 --> 00:16:46,750 homeopaths and and like-minded people 443 00:16:51,389 --> 00:16:48,910 along the lines of more and more 444 00:16:53,430 --> 00:16:51,399 scientists are coming around to our 445 00:16:55,230 --> 00:16:53,440 point of view or more and more societies 446 00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:55,240 or more hospitals are using it it's 447 00:17:00,800 --> 00:16:57,610 growing in fact you can demonstrate 448 00:17:03,090 --> 00:17:00,810 quite clearly it's the opposite 449 00:17:05,340 --> 00:17:03,100 absolutely I mean there's no credible 450 00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:05,350 respectable body that that has any 451 00:17:08,460 --> 00:17:07,329 support for homeopathy and this is the 452 00:17:11,610 --> 00:17:08,470 thing that with the point that we really 453 00:17:13,679 --> 00:17:11,620 made 22 Lupul ccg because here in the UK 454 00:17:15,299 --> 00:17:13,689 we've got the the government 455 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:15,309 commissioned a full report on homeopathy 456 00:17:19,740 --> 00:17:17,650 much like the one that happened last 457 00:17:21,929 --> 00:17:19,750 year in in Australia and that said 458 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:21,939 homeopathy is not worth funding and then 459 00:17:26,340 --> 00:17:23,770 the NHS themselves they've got a website 460 00:17:28,020 --> 00:17:26,350 and its NHS Choices that says we 461 00:17:29,610 --> 00:17:28,030 shouldn't fund homeopathy the chief 462 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:29,620 medical officer came out and said we 463 00:17:35,580 --> 00:17:33,090 shouldn't fold fund homeopathy the 464 00:17:36,870 --> 00:17:35,590 General Medical Council of JMC I've come 465 00:17:38,340 --> 00:17:36,880 out and said it the pharmacists have 466 00:17:39,870 --> 00:17:38,350 come out and said it so every body has 467 00:17:41,850 --> 00:17:39,880 come out and said we shouldn't fund 468 00:17:43,410 --> 00:17:41,860 homeopathy and this is partly odd movie 469 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:43,420 said to Louisville is that you know even 470 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:45,490 your own government and the NHS itself 471 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:47,410 is telling you not to fund this stuff 472 00:17:50,820 --> 00:17:49,690 you really need to listen to that listen 473 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:50,830 to the evidence what was really 474 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:52,210 encouraging what was it was really very 475 00:17:55,890 --> 00:17:53,650 encouraging was that the way that this 476 00:17:58,380 --> 00:17:55,900 this whole thing has worked it in the 477 00:18:00,210 --> 00:17:58,390 past these kind of consultations where 478 00:18:02,070 --> 00:18:00,220 they go out to the public and ask them 479 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:02,080 what they think about homeopathy I think 480 00:18:05,940 --> 00:18:03,730 in the past skeptics just would 481 00:18:07,890 --> 00:18:05,950 see those consultations and in fact it 482 00:18:10,470 --> 00:18:07,900 was in 2010 there was a similar 483 00:18:12,540 --> 00:18:10,480 consultation in the world so just by 484 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:12,550 just within merseyside just through the 485 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:14,770 side the water from liverpool and we as 486 00:18:18,150 --> 00:18:16,450 skeptics did not know that consultation 487 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:18,160 took place because we don't know where 488 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:19,810 to look traditionally I mean if you're 489 00:18:24,570 --> 00:18:22,570 just running a local skeptics group as I 490 00:18:26,460 --> 00:18:24,580 was at the time how do you know where to 491 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:26,470 look for conversations being had in 492 00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:27,730 local government that you could be part 493 00:18:31,260 --> 00:18:29,110 of it doesn't cross your mind to look 494 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:31,270 into this but because I now work for the 495 00:18:34,590 --> 00:18:32,410 good thinking society and it's actually 496 00:18:35,850 --> 00:18:34,600 my full-time job to look for these kinds 497 00:18:37,380 --> 00:18:35,860 of things and to push for these kinds of 498 00:18:39,180 --> 00:18:37,390 things we were able to spot this 499 00:18:41,610 --> 00:18:39,190 consultation well we actually were able 500 00:18:43,470 --> 00:18:41,620 to press the CCG to even have this 501 00:18:45,330 --> 00:18:43,480 consultation then we're able to be 502 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:45,340 involved in their plans for the 503 00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:46,690 consultation to make sure they weren't 504 00:18:49,950 --> 00:18:48,310 floor to make sure there wasn't they 505 00:18:51,780 --> 00:18:49,960 weren't asking the wrong kind of 506 00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:51,790 questions and we're able to solve make 507 00:18:54,930 --> 00:18:53,440 sure that their questions were fair and 508 00:18:56,210 --> 00:18:54,940 then once they went to public 509 00:18:58,350 --> 00:18:56,220 consultation we're able to go two 510 00:19:00,210 --> 00:18:58,360 members of the Merseyside skeptics 511 00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:00,220 society and say this is a consultation 512 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:03,760 happening in your area where your views 513 00:19:07,410 --> 00:19:05,410 would be missing from this conversation 514 00:19:08,970 --> 00:19:07,420 normally but here is your chance to say 515 00:19:10,860 --> 00:19:08,980 whether you think homeopathy should be 516 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:10,870 funded in your area and what always 517 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:12,730 happens traditionally in these in these 518 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:15,010 conversations is that everybody who's 519 00:19:18,570 --> 00:19:16,930 follow the alternative therapy or for 520 00:19:20,550 --> 00:19:18,580 the thing that's on that you know under 521 00:19:21,660 --> 00:19:20,560 threat or whatever will come out and say 522 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:21,670 we need to keep this it's really 523 00:19:25,740 --> 00:19:23,890 important yeah but all the skeptics you 524 00:19:27,690 --> 00:19:25,750 would say what we need to get homeopathy 525 00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:27,700 off the NHS would you see the headline 526 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:29,110 livable consulting to get rid of 527 00:19:32,490 --> 00:19:31,090 homeopathy and they'd say brilliant well 528 00:19:34,020 --> 00:19:32,500 done lintels consulting get rid of it 529 00:19:35,850 --> 00:19:34,030 it's about time why isn't it happen 530 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:35,860 sooner and that's as far as they go you 531 00:19:37,950 --> 00:19:36,850 know they might put a note up on 532 00:19:40,140 --> 00:19:37,960 Facebook they might put a note on 533 00:19:41,790 --> 00:19:40,150 Twitter but they want right to the CCG 534 00:19:43,590 --> 00:19:41,800 and say you should get rid of homeopathy 535 00:19:45,330 --> 00:19:43,600 for these reasons so what happens is 536 00:19:49,020 --> 00:19:45,340 traditionally the CCG we just get a 537 00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:49,030 flood of contact from people who use 538 00:19:52,860 --> 00:19:51,130 homeopathy and from homeopaths and from 539 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:52,870 the faculty of homeopathy and the 540 00:19:56,790 --> 00:19:54,730 british homeopathic association and all 541 00:20:00,210 --> 00:19:56,800 these other trade bodies that are there 542 00:20:01,590 --> 00:20:00,220 to pressure the government's into our 543 00:20:02,700 --> 00:20:01,600 governmental bodies into making these 544 00:20:04,380 --> 00:20:02,710 decisions and they wouldn't hear from 545 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:04,390 skeptics so they get a very one side of 546 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:07,570 you so the report that came out as a 547 00:20:10,980 --> 00:20:09,610 result of this consultation was really 548 00:20:14,190 --> 00:20:10,990 significant because what they found was 549 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:14,200 they had 740 people respond which is 550 00:20:17,550 --> 00:20:16,570 unprecedented lehigh and what they found 551 00:20:18,810 --> 00:20:17,560 is 75 552 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:18,820 ment of them said arse only four percent 553 00:20:22,770 --> 00:20:20,650 of them said we would never use 554 00:20:24,270 --> 00:20:22,780 homeopathy and then they looked at the 555 00:20:26,430 --> 00:20:24,280 people who were just in the livable area 556 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:26,440 and sixty-three percent of people in 557 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:28,450 Liverpool said we shouldn't be funding 558 00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:30,370 homeopathy and that's really encourage 559 00:20:33,540 --> 00:20:31,840 you say that that's because we were able 560 00:20:35,100 --> 00:20:33,550 to not only set up the consultation but 561 00:20:36,990 --> 00:20:35,110 then work with the local community group 562 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:37,000 and obviously I also run the local 563 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:38,770 community group or coronate at the most 564 00:20:42,090 --> 00:20:40,570 I'd skeptic society but we were able to 565 00:20:44,100 --> 00:20:42,100 quran all the people in the verse in the 566 00:20:45,930 --> 00:20:44,110 liverpool area to say this is something 567 00:20:48,450 --> 00:20:45,940 that two minutes of your time filling in 568 00:20:51,030 --> 00:20:48,460 a form can have a genuine impact and it 569 00:20:52,740 --> 00:20:51,040 really really has because the CCG they 570 00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:52,750 know it's not a fort it's not a pub list 571 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:54,130 to the public votes to whether a fun day 572 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:55,930 or not but if they said we're going to 573 00:20:59,160 --> 00:20:57,010 get rid of this because of the evidence 574 00:21:00,450 --> 00:20:59,170 showing it doesn't work and a hundred 575 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:00,460 percent of the people who wrote to them 576 00:21:04,380 --> 00:21:02,530 said you need to keep it that have been 577 00:21:06,420 --> 00:21:04,390 a very hard thing for them to justify 578 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:06,430 but the fact that they've got plenty of 579 00:21:09,900 --> 00:21:08,050 people and in fact the overwhelming 580 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:09,910 majority of people saying you need to 581 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:11,410 get rid of this and they're already 582 00:21:15,660 --> 00:21:12,970 inclined to follow the scientific 583 00:21:17,700 --> 00:21:15,670 evidence it makes it very very hard for 584 00:21:19,230 --> 00:21:17,710 them to go against the decision to stop 585 00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:19,240 funding it makes it very easy for them 586 00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:20,710 to say well we need to get rid of this 587 00:21:24,890 --> 00:21:22,510 now and that's precisely what happened 588 00:21:27,750 --> 00:21:24,900 so it really is a victory for mobilizing 589 00:21:30,570 --> 00:21:27,760 small amounts oh very large amounts of 590 00:21:31,530 --> 00:21:30,580 small efforts from skeptics it took five 591 00:21:33,660 --> 00:21:31,540 minutes to fill in this online 592 00:21:35,310 --> 00:21:33,670 consultation but it really has made the 593 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:35,320 difference so it's kind of just shows 594 00:21:40,770 --> 00:21:39,250 what a body like good thinking where 595 00:21:45,330 --> 00:21:40,780 we've got the time to really do stuff 596 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:45,340 and then a passionate amateur skeptical 597 00:21:48,930 --> 00:21:47,050 base who got a couple of minutes to 598 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:48,940 spare to help out what we can really 599 00:21:52,860 --> 00:21:50,530 achieve we all kind of work in the right 600 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:52,870 direction if we're all spotting these 601 00:21:56,580 --> 00:21:55,090 opportunities and are all very focused 602 00:21:58,290 --> 00:21:56,590 on the railing yeah are you gonna rider 603 00:22:00,060 --> 00:21:58,300 a cheap cheap for the rest of us 604 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:00,070 something on this earth it's something I 605 00:22:03,630 --> 00:22:01,210 was actually genuinely thinking about 606 00:22:05,250 --> 00:22:03,640 cuz I brought to Harriet whole I mean 607 00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:05,260 you know Harrenhal and fantastic is 608 00:22:10,620 --> 00:22:09,130 Jessica in us because she was am at QED 609 00:22:11,940 --> 00:22:10,630 when I first gave a talk about this last 610 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:11,950 year and she was very supportive of the 611 00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:13,210 campaign and wrought about it so I wrote 612 00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:15,760 to her to say his uh his is what 613 00:22:19,050 --> 00:22:17,200 happened and she said you should write 614 00:22:20,730 --> 00:22:19,060 about this and we'll probably shot the 615 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:20,740 science-based medicine is the tactics 616 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:23,410 yeah that the strategy for it because it 617 00:22:29,340 --> 00:22:26,770 has this is the very fort in a position 618 00:22:30,690 --> 00:22:29,350 that I'm in and the privileged position 619 00:22:31,330 --> 00:22:30,700 that I'm honored to be in really being a 620 00:22:33,850 --> 00:22:31,340 full-time sky 621 00:22:35,140 --> 00:22:33,860 is that were able to take a step back 622 00:22:37,510 --> 00:22:35,150 and look at things in a very strategic 623 00:22:39,370 --> 00:22:37,520 way in a very tactical way and say what 624 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:39,380 do we need to do to be able to effect 625 00:22:43,990 --> 00:22:42,050 this outcome so it's not just about what 626 00:22:45,610 --> 00:22:44,000 can I see and what can we what can we do 627 00:22:47,380 --> 00:22:45,620 what are we doing but it's it's what 628 00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:47,390 needs to be done and how do we need to 629 00:22:50,590 --> 00:22:48,710 do it and what's the right order and 630 00:22:52,180 --> 00:22:50,600 what skills do we need and that's really 631 00:22:54,420 --> 00:22:52,190 what we do with good thinking society is 632 00:22:57,670 --> 00:22:54,430 take their time to try and be pretty 633 00:23:00,100 --> 00:22:57,680 methodical in planning out the way that 634 00:23:01,750 --> 00:23:00,110 we can we can look at these things so 635 00:23:04,090 --> 00:23:01,760 yeah it's a great result in Liverpool 636 00:23:05,710 --> 00:23:04,100 and you know roll on the one for the 637 00:23:08,710 --> 00:23:05,720 world so I'm sure we have plenty of 638 00:23:10,210 --> 00:23:08,720 skeptics on listeners in the UK oh yes 639 00:23:12,010 --> 00:23:10,220 you can help out with the the world 640 00:23:13,690 --> 00:23:12,020 consultation and I can give you a link 641 00:23:14,770 --> 00:23:13,700 that'll be ashore notes I guess if 642 00:23:16,690 --> 00:23:14,780 you're able through that Richard where 643 00:23:18,250 --> 00:23:16,700 people can take two minutes to fill in 644 00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:18,260 the survey online and point out what 645 00:23:22,270 --> 00:23:20,480 they really think about it absolutely 646 00:23:23,980 --> 00:23:22,280 yes I'll certainly add that to the show 647 00:23:25,750 --> 00:23:23,990 notes and folks around the world 648 00:23:28,690 --> 00:23:25,760 especially those in the UK of course 649 00:23:32,140 --> 00:23:28,700 it's good thinking society org is the 650 00:23:35,380 --> 00:23:32,150 website you need to a visit have has 651 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:35,390 there been a backlash by the the alt 652 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:38,330 made crowd the homeopath there has that 653 00:23:42,730 --> 00:23:40,610 has somewhat and this is something we 654 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:42,740 have we really sort of are attuned to 655 00:23:47,020 --> 00:23:46,010 because uh back in 2010 one of when 656 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:47,030 there was this concentration in the 657 00:23:50,710 --> 00:23:48,890 world they decided to get rid of 658 00:23:53,050 --> 00:23:50,720 homeopathy and we were slightly partner 659 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:53,060 consultation last minute but a few 660 00:23:55,930 --> 00:23:54,410 months later they decided to keep 661 00:23:58,030 --> 00:23:55,940 homeopathy because they were challenged 662 00:23:59,380 --> 00:23:58,040 by the homie pats and we weren't aware 663 00:24:01,030 --> 00:23:59,390 of that we didn't see it because we just 664 00:24:02,410 --> 00:24:01,040 didn't have the time and the skills the 665 00:24:04,090 --> 00:24:02,420 expertise and the know-how to monitor 666 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:04,100 these things so we're going watching 667 00:24:07,150 --> 00:24:06,050 very carefully because inevitably the 668 00:24:09,310 --> 00:24:07,160 Holy Pat's will have something to say 669 00:24:11,740 --> 00:24:09,320 about this and I understand why I really 670 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:11,750 do when I was in the room at the CCG 671 00:24:15,100 --> 00:24:12,890 meeting where they made the decision 672 00:24:16,870 --> 00:24:15,110 yesterday and there were three of the 673 00:24:19,660 --> 00:24:16,880 people from the homeopathy service who 674 00:24:21,340 --> 00:24:19,670 provide homeopathy and a plenty for the 675 00:24:22,450 --> 00:24:21,350 patients there too and speaking to one 676 00:24:24,700 --> 00:24:22,460 of the doctors who provides homeopathy 677 00:24:27,310 --> 00:24:24,710 she genuinely can't understand why we 678 00:24:28,870 --> 00:24:27,320 wouldn't want homeopathy on the NHS yeah 679 00:24:30,820 --> 00:24:28,880 and she thinks it must be because we're 680 00:24:33,460 --> 00:24:30,830 funded by big father and explain to a 3d 681 00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:33,470 got it but she's she's genuinely upset 682 00:24:38,770 --> 00:24:36,080 by it because she absolutely thinks that 683 00:24:41,370 --> 00:24:38,780 homeopathy works yeah so for her it's 684 00:24:44,350 --> 00:24:41,380 it's it's completely crazy that we're 685 00:24:45,250 --> 00:24:44,360 that we're challenging this but of 686 00:24:46,570 --> 00:24:45,260 course 687 00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:46,580 she's a full-time GP as well as a 688 00:24:49,660 --> 00:24:48,080 homeopath but she's in the absolute 689 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:49,670 minority of Jeff GPS who think 690 00:24:53,620 --> 00:24:51,890 homeopathy works which is why she's one 691 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:53,630 of the GPS who's providing homeopathy 692 00:25:00,970 --> 00:24:56,810 you know the fact of her position is is 693 00:25:02,380 --> 00:25:00,980 necessary for the position she holds so 694 00:25:04,510 --> 00:25:02,390 they will they will be counteracting 695 00:25:07,870 --> 00:25:04,520 this so far they've been some pretty 696 00:25:09,970 --> 00:25:07,880 interesting statements made to the CCG 697 00:25:12,340 --> 00:25:09,980 by various bodies i mean the faculty of 698 00:25:15,550 --> 00:25:12,350 homeopaths here in the UK has said that 699 00:25:18,340 --> 00:25:15,560 the entire consultation is redundant or 700 00:25:21,010 --> 00:25:18,350 irrelevant or a flawed because they as 701 00:25:22,210 --> 00:25:21,020 one of the biggest bodies of biggest 702 00:25:23,890 --> 00:25:22,220 professional bodies representing 703 00:25:25,450 --> 00:25:23,900 homeopaths they weren't included in the 704 00:25:27,940 --> 00:25:25,460 consultation therefore it didn't have 705 00:25:29,620 --> 00:25:27,950 all the information needs but the CCG 706 00:25:31,930 --> 00:25:29,630 did point out that it was an open public 707 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:31,940 consultation but they were very welcome 708 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:33,530 to be part of if they'd bothered writing 709 00:25:37,900 --> 00:25:35,330 it but they haven't written in I mean 710 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:37,910 it's so that's that's part of it and I'm 711 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:39,290 sure there'll be other other little 712 00:25:43,150 --> 00:25:41,090 things too but it's something we've got 713 00:25:45,460 --> 00:25:43,160 to keep an eye out but the the the key 714 00:25:47,050 --> 00:25:45,470 really is that if we're able to monitor 715 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:47,060 these things and keep a close close eye 716 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:48,650 on them we think this consultation has 717 00:25:51,100 --> 00:25:50,330 been done as fairly as possible and that 718 00:25:53,500 --> 00:25:51,110 was one of the things that we were 719 00:25:55,030 --> 00:25:53,510 looking at when we were when the CCG 720 00:25:56,890 --> 00:25:55,040 sent us their their plans for the 721 00:25:58,090 --> 00:25:56,900 consultation they sent over to make sure 722 00:25:59,590 --> 00:25:58,100 that we is that the people who 723 00:26:01,540 --> 00:25:59,600 threatened to take them to court were 724 00:26:03,070 --> 00:26:01,550 happy with the consultation we weren't 725 00:26:04,270 --> 00:26:03,080 just looking for a consult we certainly 726 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:04,280 weren't looking for a consultation that 727 00:26:09,220 --> 00:26:06,610 would produce the result we wanted 728 00:26:10,870 --> 00:26:09,230 because there is no way that would stand 729 00:26:12,130 --> 00:26:10,880 up so what we were looking forward to 730 00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:12,140 make sure this is the fairest 731 00:26:15,100 --> 00:26:13,760 consultation possible that will take 732 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:15,110 into account people's views that would 733 00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:16,250 take into account the right kind of 734 00:26:21,490 --> 00:26:19,130 evidence so that the best gold standard 735 00:26:23,530 --> 00:26:21,500 evans that's out there and make sure 736 00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:23,540 that this is as best as can be a 737 00:26:28,870 --> 00:26:25,910 flawless consultation or as good as it 738 00:26:31,810 --> 00:26:28,880 could possibly be not just because we 739 00:26:34,420 --> 00:26:31,820 wanted this we had a good understanding 740 00:26:37,030 --> 00:26:34,430 and a good belief that in all things 741 00:26:38,530 --> 00:26:37,040 being equal the evidence against 742 00:26:40,270 --> 00:26:38,540 homeopathy should be enough to convince 743 00:26:41,980 --> 00:26:40,280 people it shouldnt what it shouldn't be 744 00:26:43,540 --> 00:26:41,990 funded but also we didn't want the 745 00:26:45,100 --> 00:26:43,550 consultation i had a big floor in it 746 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:45,110 that would only leave it to be 747 00:26:50,830 --> 00:26:47,930 challenged later on so we're hoping that 748 00:26:52,270 --> 00:26:50,840 that this is a bit everything that it 749 00:26:54,460 --> 00:26:52,280 needs to be and then it's it's been 750 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:54,470 fully robust but we'll be keeping an eye 751 00:26:57,890 --> 00:26:55,730 on these things you know will be will be 752 00:26:59,330 --> 00:26:57,900 monitoring this at again that's the the 753 00:27:01,250 --> 00:26:59,340 the good thing about being in this 754 00:27:02,690 --> 00:27:01,260 position is that we were able to do that 755 00:27:04,820 --> 00:27:02,700 we understand what we're looking for now 756 00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:04,830 we've got the skill sets and resources 757 00:27:10,190 --> 00:27:08,370 in terms of expertise and understanding 758 00:27:12,170 --> 00:27:10,200 to to know what's going on in Liverpool 759 00:27:14,810 --> 00:27:12,180 and what what kind of challenges might 760 00:27:17,060 --> 00:27:14,820 come for it if we carry on as we are and 761 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:17,070 we carry on having the the level of 762 00:27:20,540 --> 00:27:18,330 impact that we have we could genuinely 763 00:27:22,370 --> 00:27:20,550 be the place in the next year and a half 764 00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:22,380 we're the only homeopathy that's 765 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:26,130 available on the NHS is in London and 766 00:27:30,620 --> 00:27:28,170 even that is something that we're 767 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:30,630 putting a lot of our time into 768 00:27:33,980 --> 00:27:32,610 investigating and finding some some 769 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:33,990 pretty interesting stuff about that 770 00:27:36,590 --> 00:27:35,490 hopefully I'll be able to on able to 771 00:27:38,390 --> 00:27:36,600 come back on the show in the future and 772 00:27:39,890 --> 00:27:38,400 tell you a bit more about once you've 773 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:39,900 got something definitive but we're 774 00:27:44,420 --> 00:27:42,210 really getting somewhere I think and who 775 00:27:45,890 --> 00:27:44,430 knows maybe soon homeopathy on the NHS 776 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:45,900 will be a complete thing in the past and 777 00:27:49,820 --> 00:27:48,450 the five million pounds ago that that we 778 00:27:52,130 --> 00:27:49,830 waste on these things can be spent on 779 00:27:54,380 --> 00:27:52,140 stuff that actually works that actually 780 00:27:58,010 --> 00:27:54,390 works and folks I would also encourage 781 00:27:59,930 --> 00:27:58,020 you if you'd like to do it the good 782 00:28:02,080 --> 00:27:59,940 thinking society have a newsletter and 783 00:28:04,430 --> 00:28:02,090 you can sign up right on their website 784 00:28:06,170 --> 00:28:04,440 that's true yes yeah you go to a good 785 00:28:07,820 --> 00:28:06,180 thinking society org we've got a little 786 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:07,830 box that you put your email address in 787 00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:08,930 and we'll send you a newsletter 788 00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:11,760 periodically every every month or two we 789 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:14,130 also have a donate button I mean this is 790 00:28:17,870 --> 00:28:15,450 the thing we are a charity and it's 791 00:28:20,210 --> 00:28:17,880 taken two years of our work to get here 792 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:20,220 and it's a really significant outcome 793 00:28:24,050 --> 00:28:22,290 and hopefully the first of many but we 794 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:24,060 need support to carry on that's kind of 795 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:25,410 the nature of being a charity so if 796 00:28:29,780 --> 00:28:28,290 anybody wants to take a look at our site 797 00:28:31,370 --> 00:28:29,790 and think you know what i think this 798 00:28:33,860 --> 00:28:31,380 this victory is worth spending a couple 799 00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:33,870 of quid on then we'd be very happy for 800 00:28:38,270 --> 00:28:35,370 anything anyone could give us really and 801 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:38,280 yeah we'll use that money to do the next 802 00:28:43,010 --> 00:28:40,650 thing that we're doing fantastic oaks i 803 00:28:44,870 --> 00:28:43,020 encourage you to subscribe go to good 804 00:28:48,140 --> 00:28:44,880 thinking society and org and subscribe 805 00:28:50,450 --> 00:28:48,150 to the newsletter donate if you can and 806 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:50,460 get the information from the good 807 00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:52,890 thinking which is all about good 808 00:28:56,780 --> 00:28:54,510 thinking really what can you say it's 809 00:28:59,450 --> 00:28:56,790 it's a good name for a for a group it 810 00:29:01,790 --> 00:28:59,460 says it all Marsh we look forward to 811 00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:01,800 greeting you in person here in Australia 812 00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:03,600 at the end of the year I suspect we'll 813 00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:06,000 probably chat to you again before then 814 00:29:11,450 --> 00:29:09,840 to have to have an update on the 815 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:11,460 activities good thinking 816 00:29:16,700 --> 00:29:14,970 you for being part of the 400 episode of 817 00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:16,710 the skeptic zone 2 by the way this is a 818 00:29:22,730 --> 00:29:19,110 an ongoing celebration we're having this 819 00:29:24,169 --> 00:29:22,740 week well so I'm 400 800 that's that's 820 00:29:25,669 --> 00:29:24,179 quite a quite an undertaking that's 821 00:29:27,980 --> 00:29:25,679 that's something to be very proud of 822 00:29:31,850 --> 00:29:27,990 that's a huge amount of shows it 823 00:29:33,649 --> 00:29:31,860 certainly is Wow it certainly is i'm 824 00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:33,659 trying to recall the time in my life 825 00:29:37,399 --> 00:29:35,520 where I didn't do this this every week 826 00:29:39,230 --> 00:29:37,409 but there you go but once again Michael 827 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:39,240 Marshall from there good thinking 828 00:30:00,380 --> 00:29:41,970 society thank you very much thank you so 829 00:30:02,899 --> 00:30:00,390 much Richard hello Richard and all the 830 00:30:06,019 --> 00:30:02,909 listeners of skeptic zone my name is Ron 831 00:30:08,149 --> 00:30:06,029 Levy and I'm the producer and co-host of 832 00:30:12,010 --> 00:30:08,159 curious mine it's about cast about 833 00:30:16,909 --> 00:30:12,020 science technology and history at wwc 834 00:30:18,830 --> 00:30:16,919 em-pod cmp oh d dot net each episode 835 00:30:21,019 --> 00:30:18,840 will bring you interesting stories from 836 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:21,029 a wide range of subjects from physics 837 00:30:25,789 --> 00:30:23,970 astronomy and medicine from arts to 838 00:30:27,590 --> 00:30:25,799 science fiction we strive for the 839 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:27,600 highest production values both in 840 00:30:32,690 --> 00:30:29,970 content and in delivery we already have 841 00:30:35,210 --> 00:30:32,700 on the air episodes about German u-boats 842 00:30:38,269 --> 00:30:35,220 in Second World War about the history of 843 00:30:42,370 --> 00:30:38,279 x-rays and the war of currents between 844 00:31:00,910 --> 00:30:42,380 Tesla and Edison come and have a listen 845 00:31:18,350 --> 00:31:09,380 the cache files with dr. Cassandra 846 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:18,360 Perryman and joining me now all the way 847 00:31:24,140 --> 00:31:20,970 from rainbow beach in Queensland it's 848 00:31:27,380 --> 00:31:24,150 our new reporter dr. Cassandra Perryman 849 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:27,390 hello Cassandra hello Richard wonderful 850 00:31:33,380 --> 00:31:29,250 to have you as part of the skeptics own 851 00:31:35,450 --> 00:31:33,390 team oh I am amazingly excited and and 852 00:31:38,290 --> 00:31:35,460 shaking like a giddy little girl oh 853 00:31:40,670 --> 00:31:38,300 that's that's quite an image to Hugo 854 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:40,680 well don't shake too much like a giddy 855 00:31:44,210 --> 00:31:41,970 little girl we hope to get some 856 00:31:46,250 --> 00:31:44,220 interesting reports from you in the near 857 00:31:49,310 --> 00:31:46,260 future but for now what can you tell our 858 00:31:52,700 --> 00:31:49,320 audience about yourself well as the the 859 00:31:56,870 --> 00:31:52,710 accent says I'm not from Australia I'm a 860 00:31:58,910 --> 00:31:56,880 California girl and well was raised a 861 00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:58,920 bit of everywhere but ended up speaking 862 00:32:02,900 --> 00:32:00,960 like a Californian and spending most of 863 00:32:05,260 --> 00:32:02,910 my life there and came over to Australia 864 00:32:09,950 --> 00:32:05,270 to get my doctorate so moved here in 865 00:32:13,310 --> 00:32:09,960 2010 my goodness it's been that long hmm 866 00:32:17,210 --> 00:32:13,320 I have a PhD in Experimental Psychology 867 00:32:21,700 --> 00:32:17,220 and basically my my dissertation focus 868 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:21,710 is was was drug and alcohol but I study 869 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:23,970 just about everything cross discipline 870 00:32:27,770 --> 00:32:25,170 as long as it has to do with statistics 871 00:32:29,210 --> 00:32:27,780 I'm in the game it's quite an 872 00:32:31,430 --> 00:32:29,220 interesting middle skill set you got 873 00:32:34,060 --> 00:32:31,440 there and I think I look forward one day 874 00:32:37,580 --> 00:32:34,070 to you coming along on a skeptic zone 875 00:32:40,910 --> 00:32:37,590 field trip to a mind-body wallet a hard 876 00:32:43,070 --> 00:32:40,920 day and you'll see lots of experimental 877 00:32:46,580 --> 00:32:43,080 psychology there I promise oh yeah they 878 00:32:49,670 --> 00:32:46,590 don't like me much there are you sure 879 00:32:52,460 --> 00:32:49,680 that's good control are you sure don't 880 00:32:54,380 --> 00:32:52,470 think that's controlled oh you're just 881 00:32:56,180 --> 00:32:54,390 the sort of person were after absolutely 882 00:32:58,400 --> 00:32:56,190 but a skeptic zone listeners know 883 00:32:59,570 --> 00:32:58,410 they've heard your voice before because 884 00:33:01,430 --> 00:32:59,580 you're the president of the Brisbane 885 00:33:02,580 --> 00:33:01,440 skeptics society and I've been running 886 00:33:04,590 --> 00:33:02,590 some promote 887 00:33:07,500 --> 00:33:04,600 for you just recently what can you tell 888 00:33:08,789 --> 00:33:07,510 me about that well I was elected 889 00:33:11,250 --> 00:33:08,799 president at the beginning of this year 890 00:33:14,789 --> 00:33:11,260 very very happy it's a great group of 891 00:33:16,289 --> 00:33:14,799 people we organized last year's national 892 00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:16,299 skeptics convention and that's where a 893 00:33:20,909 --> 00:33:18,640 lot of folks across Australia realized 894 00:33:23,130 --> 00:33:20,919 Brisbane skeptics society was on the map 895 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:23,140 we've been around for a couple more 896 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:25,090 years than that that's all right we're 897 00:33:30,419 --> 00:33:28,210 at an active group we have quite a few 898 00:33:32,279 --> 00:33:30,429 meetings were very tight-knit we're 899 00:33:34,860 --> 00:33:32,289 always happy to welcome somebody new and 900 00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:34,870 even contrary opinions it's not 901 00:33:41,580 --> 00:33:38,080 infrequent to have somebody who is not a 902 00:33:46,289 --> 00:33:41,590 skeptic join us and try to test us and 903 00:33:49,350 --> 00:33:46,299 convert us and it's a lot of fun we're 904 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:49,360 not converted but it's a lot of fun of 905 00:33:54,450 --> 00:33:51,610 course that the convention last year in 906 00:33:56,940 --> 00:33:54,460 Brisbane was a huge success and it was a 907 00:33:58,680 --> 00:33:56,950 the venue was good and the speakers work 908 00:34:00,269 --> 00:33:58,690 were top notch in dinner I think 909 00:34:02,279 --> 00:34:00,279 everybody had a good time in the dinner 910 00:34:04,649 --> 00:34:02,289 was fun so yes congratulations on 911 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:04,659 holding a very successful dinner and you 912 00:34:07,799 --> 00:34:06,010 work with some pretty good people up 913 00:34:09,990 --> 00:34:07,809 there in Brisbane well fan you have 914 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:10,000 fantastic people fantastic people and 915 00:34:15,149 --> 00:34:12,010 I'm not sure if I should be calling them 916 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:15,159 out by name but we have a very good 917 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:17,530 committee of people that I really think 918 00:34:22,530 --> 00:34:20,050 are second to none oh yes a fantastic 919 00:34:24,839 --> 00:34:22,540 group of people it's always a pleasure 920 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:24,849 to go up there and see them and take 921 00:34:28,710 --> 00:34:26,530 part in whatever they're doing so 922 00:34:31,050 --> 00:34:28,720 Cassandra Perryman dr. Cassandra 923 00:34:33,899 --> 00:34:31,060 Perryman it's so exciting to have you as 924 00:34:36,599 --> 00:34:33,909 a new reporter on the skeptic zone and I 925 00:34:39,270 --> 00:34:36,609 think I won't pressure you too much to 926 00:34:41,220 --> 00:34:39,280 give us some some reports and insights 927 00:34:43,230 --> 00:34:41,230 but when's the next one you come on come 928 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:43,240 on come on come on a couple weeks a 929 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:45,010 couple of weeks we have to wait that 930 00:34:48,510 --> 00:34:46,330 long i don't know how we're getting to 931 00:34:51,810 --> 00:34:48,520 do it oh maybe i can work faster for you 932 00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:51,820 oh thank you very much now but seriously 933 00:34:56,490 --> 00:34:54,250 welcome aboard it's great to announce 934 00:34:59,339 --> 00:34:56,500 you as any reporter on show number four 935 00:35:02,640 --> 00:34:59,349 hundred and that congratulations on that 936 00:35:04,380 --> 00:35:02,650 rich or two that is a huge huge landmark 937 00:35:06,900 --> 00:35:04,390 accomplishment well thank you very much 938 00:35:08,970 --> 00:35:06,910 it's a it's been a lot of fun and who 939 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:08,980 knows maybe there'll be a couple of more 940 00:35:15,610 --> 00:35:12,010 skipping stones in the pipeline before I 941 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:15,620 pack it all in four hundred or more me 942 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:18,450 Thank You Cassandra thank you very much 943 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:40,170 for you hi this is Cassandra president 944 00:35:45,230 --> 00:35:42,450 of the Brisbane skeptics society and 945 00:35:47,830 --> 00:35:45,240 sunny Queensland which well by Sydney 946 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:47,840 standards is the north side of Australia 947 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:51,210 I'd like to invite you to join us at one 948 00:35:56,720 --> 00:35:54,210 of our many events not only do we have 949 00:35:59,420 --> 00:35:56,730 weekly social gatherings all over 950 00:36:01,730 --> 00:35:59,430 Brisbane and monthly lectures we get 951 00:36:04,370 --> 00:36:01,740 along so well that once or twice a year 952 00:36:08,270 --> 00:36:04,380 we escape our city confines in Brisbane 953 00:36:10,300 --> 00:36:08,280 and go travelling together we're always 954 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:10,310 on the lookout for new ideas new 955 00:36:18,220 --> 00:36:14,010 perspectives and definitely new speakers 956 00:36:22,010 --> 00:36:18,230 want to find out more please visit us at 957 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:22,020 WWF inscape dixie org or search for 958 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:24,810 Brisbane skeptics society on Facebook or 959 00:36:50,620 --> 00:36:44,170 here's Maynard spooky action at the 960 00:36:53,020 --> 00:36:50,630 distance we're here at supernova 2016 961 00:36:55,330 --> 00:36:53,030 I'm here with a main item NR hello 962 00:36:57,130 --> 00:36:55,340 Richard and Tim Ferguson from the bunga 963 00:36:59,590 --> 00:36:57,140 bunga and the dog Anthony ourselves hey 964 00:37:01,450 --> 00:36:59,600 are you going a Richard and I just want 965 00:37:02,890 --> 00:37:01,460 to say thanks to you may not for 966 00:37:05,100 --> 00:37:02,900 contributing this is episode four 967 00:37:07,780 --> 00:37:05,110 hundred of the podcasters you know 400 968 00:37:09,610 --> 00:37:07,790 skeptic zones eight years in production 969 00:37:11,650 --> 00:37:09,620 and you've been a part of that for most 970 00:37:13,060 --> 00:37:11,660 of the time well I'm glad I can help out 971 00:37:14,500 --> 00:37:13,070 with the time because I mean I know how 972 00:37:15,940 --> 00:37:14,510 hard Richard works on this show and 973 00:37:17,470 --> 00:37:15,950 people a few you should actually 974 00:37:19,510 --> 00:37:17,480 contribute to this show because he 975 00:37:21,190 --> 00:37:19,520 doesn't get paid at all for it and to 976 00:37:23,020 --> 00:37:21,200 let you know that you should contribute 977 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:23,030 to the show here's Tim Ferguson to make 978 00:37:33,310 --> 00:37:30,650 you feel guilty yeah give money you know 979 00:37:35,380 --> 00:37:33,320 otherwise as you can see look around you 980 00:37:37,900 --> 00:37:35,390 those churches are not going out of 981 00:37:40,180 --> 00:37:37,910 business we need more skepticism people 982 00:37:42,340 --> 00:37:40,190 and actually after spending your day 983 00:37:43,660 --> 00:37:42,350 here at supernova Tim are you any more 984 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:43,670 skeptical about anything or less 985 00:37:47,620 --> 00:37:45,650 skeptical well actually I'm starting to 986 00:37:50,050 --> 00:37:47,630 believe I've seen more than one 987 00:37:53,500 --> 00:37:50,060 spider-man I'm starting to think 988 00:37:55,660 --> 00:37:53,510 spider-man is a real thing and Richard 989 00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:55,670 we've only seen two fizzers the mat 990 00:38:00,670 --> 00:37:57,770 smith Doctor Who Fez only two of them we 991 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:00,680 have lots of scarves but we saw a female 992 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:04,370 four and she was just incredible wasn't 993 00:38:12,490 --> 00:38:10,450 she a female what oh yeah yeah sorry 994 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:12,500 yeah you thought it'd have been a 995 00:38:16,510 --> 00:38:13,970 costume malfunction or something did you 996 00:38:18,010 --> 00:38:16,520 Richard I was wondering but anyway yes 997 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:18,020 thank you for being such a big part of 998 00:38:22,870 --> 00:38:20,930 the skeptic zone may not and thanks Tim 999 00:38:25,270 --> 00:38:22,880 for your occasional guest appearance oh 1000 00:38:26,820 --> 00:38:25,280 yeah occasional and I've loved each of 1001 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:26,830 every one of those occasions 1002 00:38:30,529 --> 00:38:29,130 congratulations skeptics it 1003 00:38:33,079 --> 00:38:30,539 I got to ask you 10 this is one I 1004 00:38:34,460 --> 00:38:33,089 usually ask the all the scientists that 1005 00:38:36,799 --> 00:38:34,470 come on and since it's a fourth hundreds 1006 00:38:39,049 --> 00:38:36,809 episode and if there was one whew that 1007 00:38:40,849 --> 00:38:39,059 was actually true if there was one sort 1008 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:40,859 of pseudoscience it was actually real 1009 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:44,690 Tim which one would you want it to be I 1010 00:38:51,740 --> 00:38:48,210 would like it to be that meditation is 1011 00:38:54,620 --> 00:38:51,750 at all effective because it's just so 1012 00:38:58,460 --> 00:38:54,630 easy to do well it's so easy to do and 1013 00:38:59,900 --> 00:38:58,470 really you know meditating involves not 1014 00:39:02,749 --> 00:38:59,910 doing anything and that's supposed to 1015 00:39:04,309 --> 00:39:02,759 make you live longer and maybe it does 1016 00:39:08,089 --> 00:39:04,319 make you live longer but think of the 1017 00:39:29,070 --> 00:39:08,099 time you've wasted meditated happy 400 1018 00:39:33,310 --> 00:39:31,750 astronomy cast takes a fax based journey 1019 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:33,320 through the cosmos as it offers 1020 00:39:37,900 --> 00:39:35,210 listeners weekly discussions on 1021 00:39:40,780 --> 00:39:37,910 astronomical topics ranging from planets 1022 00:39:43,240 --> 00:39:40,790 to cosmology hosted by Fraser Cain of 1023 00:39:44,109 --> 00:39:43,250 Universe Today and myself dr. Pamela gay 1024 00:39:46,780 --> 00:39:44,119 of southern illinois university 1025 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:46,790 edwardsville this show brings the 1026 00:39:51,099 --> 00:39:48,650 questions of an avid astronomy lover 1027 00:39:53,170 --> 00:39:51,109 directly to an astronomer together 1028 00:39:54,730 --> 00:39:53,180 Fraser and I explore what is known and 1029 00:39:57,490 --> 00:39:54,740 being discovered about the universe 1030 00:39:59,560 --> 00:39:57,500 around us join us each week as we take a 1031 00:40:10,540 --> 00:39:59,570 fax space journey through the cosmos at 1032 00:40:12,609 --> 00:40:10,550 astronomy cast calm now as we reported 1033 00:40:14,530 --> 00:40:12,619 last week on the skeptic zone the 1034 00:40:16,870 --> 00:40:14,540 federal opposition party here in 1035 00:40:18,670 --> 00:40:16,880 Australia the Labour Party and there is 1036 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:18,680 a federal election coming up so both 1037 00:40:22,540 --> 00:40:21,050 parties the Liberal Party or the 1038 00:40:25,359 --> 00:40:22,550 Conservative Party and the Labour Party 1039 00:40:28,690 --> 00:40:25,369 are making no promises well the Labour 1040 00:40:30,580 --> 00:40:28,700 Party made a promise to cut taxpayer 1041 00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:30,590 funding for a raft of alternative 1042 00:40:35,500 --> 00:40:33,250 medicine needless to say this is a 1043 00:40:39,030 --> 00:40:35,510 caused a bit of a stink bit of a 1044 00:40:42,370 --> 00:40:39,040 backlash a bit of a to do amongst the 1045 00:40:44,890 --> 00:40:42,380 alternative medicine crowd and from the 1046 00:40:49,150 --> 00:40:44,900 website of the Australian pharmacy 1047 00:40:52,420 --> 00:40:49,160 professional Sora a.j.p dot-com today 1048 00:40:55,090 --> 00:40:52,430 you you read labour complimentary rebate 1049 00:40:58,300 --> 00:40:55,100 cut plan a false economy now this is 1050 00:41:01,150 --> 00:40:58,310 reporting on a news release put out on 1051 00:41:03,460 --> 00:41:01,160 june the 14th by the complementary 1052 00:41:05,650 --> 00:41:03,470 medicines australia which slogan is 1053 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:05,660 natural health and wellness it reads 1054 00:41:10,810 --> 00:41:08,330 shadow treasurer Chris Bowen announced a 1055 00:41:13,570 --> 00:41:10,820 raft of cuts last Friday with labour 1056 00:41:16,810 --> 00:41:13,580 leader Bill Shorten reiterating the cuts 1057 00:41:20,170 --> 00:41:16,820 on natural therapies on ABC's QA this 1058 00:41:23,109 --> 00:41:20,180 week ABC's Q&A is a TV a weekly TV panel 1059 00:41:25,060 --> 00:41:23,119 show usually with politicians quote 1060 00:41:27,670 --> 00:41:25,070 Labour's plans are nothing more than a 1061 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:27,680 false economy and quote said Carl Gibson 1062 00:41:31,190 --> 00:41:29,690 chief executive of complementary 1063 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:31,200 medicines Australia 1064 00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:33,810 it is an accepted principle that for 1065 00:41:38,510 --> 00:41:35,520 every one dollar invested in 1066 00:41:40,190 --> 00:41:38,520 preventative health the day Australia 1067 00:41:42,349 --> 00:41:40,200 will save ten dollars on chronic 1068 00:41:44,450 --> 00:41:42,359 diseases in the future preventative 1069 00:41:46,940 --> 00:41:44,460 health is an essential move towards 1070 00:41:48,290 --> 00:41:46,950 improving the cost-effectiveness of the 1071 00:41:50,770 --> 00:41:48,300 Australian health care system and 1072 00:41:53,390 --> 00:41:50,780 crucial in taking pressure off 1073 00:41:56,030 --> 00:41:53,400 overstretched hospitals cutting the 1074 00:41:58,040 --> 00:41:56,040 preventive health care rebate would not 1075 00:42:00,290 --> 00:41:58,050 save money in the long run but would 1076 00:42:02,900 --> 00:42:00,300 instead be detrimental to the 1077 00:42:05,240 --> 00:42:02,910 government's health budget and quote 1078 00:42:08,329 --> 00:42:05,250 Gibson sights Australian Bureau of 1079 00:42:10,730 --> 00:42:08,339 Statistics data that shows people who 1080 00:42:12,589 --> 00:42:10,740 have visited a natural therapist were 1081 00:42:15,620 --> 00:42:12,599 more likely to have healthier behaviors 1082 00:42:18,410 --> 00:42:15,630 including eating the recommended minimum 1083 00:42:20,810 --> 00:42:18,420 serve of fruit and vegetables exercising 1084 00:42:22,670 --> 00:42:20,820 more and not smoking quote natural 1085 00:42:25,069 --> 00:42:22,680 products and therapies contribute to the 1086 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:25,079 maintenance of a healthier lifestyle and 1087 00:42:30,290 --> 00:42:27,210 better quality of life and quote he says 1088 00:42:32,450 --> 00:42:30,300 quote the burden of disease in Australia 1089 00:42:34,579 --> 00:42:32,460 and the associated economic costs is a 1090 00:42:37,490 --> 00:42:34,589 progressively top of the main issue and 1091 00:42:40,130 --> 00:42:37,500 the relatively small 40 million dollars 1092 00:42:42,140 --> 00:42:40,140 a year investment into the rebate for 1093 00:42:43,940 --> 00:42:42,150 natural therapies is a small price to 1094 00:42:46,460 --> 00:42:43,950 pay for the long-term health of 1095 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:46,470 Australians out of a total spend of more 1096 00:42:52,010 --> 00:42:49,170 than one hundred and five billion end 1097 00:42:55,579 --> 00:42:52,020 quote and now I'd like to read a reply 1098 00:42:57,650 --> 00:42:55,589 on the the same website by Ken Harvey 1099 00:43:00,859 --> 00:42:57,660 who has been described by the aged 1100 00:43:03,140 --> 00:43:00,869 newspaper as an anti quackery Crusader 1101 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:03,150 and is an advocate of evidence-based 1102 00:43:09,230 --> 00:43:07,050 medicine and can write as a public 1103 00:43:11,690 --> 00:43:09,240 health physician I certainly agree that 1104 00:43:14,660 --> 00:43:11,700 a greater investment in preventative 1105 00:43:17,870 --> 00:43:14,670 health is cost effectiveness but as a 1106 00:43:20,030 --> 00:43:17,880 member of the recent government natural 1107 00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:20,040 therapies review Advisory Committee I 1108 00:43:25,220 --> 00:43:22,560 remind Kyle Gibson complementary 1109 00:43:27,620 --> 00:43:25,230 medicines Australia that the review was 1110 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:27,630 unable to find good evidence supporting 1111 00:43:32,180 --> 00:43:29,490 the effectiveness of the therapies 1112 00:43:34,700 --> 00:43:32,190 investigated does complementary 1113 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:34,710 medicines Australia really believe that 1114 00:43:38,770 --> 00:43:36,210 providing a private health insurance 1115 00:43:41,839 --> 00:43:38,780 rebate for therapy such as homeopathy 1116 00:43:43,510 --> 00:43:41,849 iridology and herbalism produces 1117 00:43:45,700 --> 00:43:43,520 preventative health benefit 1118 00:43:47,590 --> 00:43:45,710 and where is the evidence that the 1119 00:43:50,470 --> 00:43:47,600 majority of the natural products 1120 00:43:53,110 --> 00:43:50,480 promoted and consumed contribute to a 1121 00:43:55,150 --> 00:43:53,120 healthier lifestyle the fact that people 1122 00:43:56,740 --> 00:43:55,160 who have visited a natural therapists 1123 00:43:58,990 --> 00:43:56,750 were more likely to have healthier 1124 00:44:01,140 --> 00:43:59,000 behavior is probably due to the 1125 00:44:05,020 --> 00:44:01,150 underlying demographic of such people 1126 00:44:07,750 --> 00:44:05,030 female educated and affluent rather than 1127 00:44:09,820 --> 00:44:07,760 the specific intervention of a natural 1128 00:44:11,950 --> 00:44:09,830 therapist I have no problems with people 1129 00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:11,960 who make an informed choice to see a 1130 00:44:15,550 --> 00:44:13,610 natural therapist or consume 1131 00:44:18,100 --> 00:44:15,560 complementary medicines I just don't 1132 00:44:21,100 --> 00:44:18,110 want my taxes to subsidize therapies at 1133 00:44:24,990 --> 00:44:21,110 lack a good evidence base and that 1134 00:44:41,050 --> 00:44:25,000 report and the replies can be found at a 1135 00:44:43,870 --> 00:44:41,060 JP com au Australian skeptics National 1136 00:44:46,270 --> 00:44:43,880 Convention 2016 will be hosted in 1137 00:44:49,390 --> 00:44:46,280 Melbourne at the University of Melbourne 1138 00:44:51,610 --> 00:44:49,400 from the 25th to the 27th of November 1139 00:44:54,340 --> 00:44:51,620 with the annual dinner being held at 1140 00:44:58,540 --> 00:44:54,350 melbourne zoo on the evening of the 26th 1141 00:45:01,260 --> 00:44:58,550 of November early bird ticket sales are 1142 00:45:05,770 --> 00:45:01,270 online at the convention website 1143 00:45:07,540 --> 00:45:05,780 convention skeptics comdata you and if 1144 00:45:09,610 --> 00:45:07,550 you get an early bird ticket you'll 1145 00:45:13,780 --> 00:45:09,620 receive a discount and be able to 1146 00:45:15,340 --> 00:45:13,790 reserve seats close to the stage we can 1147 00:45:18,250 --> 00:45:15,350 confirm that speakers for the convention 1148 00:45:21,460 --> 00:45:18,260 will include Lawrence Krauss Ed's odd 1149 00:45:25,060 --> 00:45:21,470 Ernst Harriet hall Michael Marshall 1150 00:45:28,900 --> 00:45:25,070 Katie Mac and Mel Thompson with many 1151 00:45:31,940 --> 00:45:28,910 more great speakers to be announced soon 1152 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:31,950 nicholas j johnson is our emcee for the 1153 00:45:36,620 --> 00:45:34,650 annual dinner information about our 1154 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:36,630 speakers is available from the 1155 00:45:50,930 --> 00:45:39,210 convention website so that's convention 1156 00:45:52,700 --> 00:45:50,940 got skeptics calm got a you you're 1157 00:45:56,930 --> 00:45:52,710 listening to the skeptics guide to the 1158 00:45:58,880 --> 00:45:56,940 universe your escape to reality and 1159 00:46:01,130 --> 00:45:58,890 joining me now on the line from all over 1160 00:46:03,500 --> 00:46:01,140 the United States yes it's the skeptics 1161 00:46:07,340 --> 00:46:03,510 guide to the universe crew gang rogues 1162 00:46:10,220 --> 00:46:07,350 hello hey Richard how are ya hey we got 1163 00:46:12,500 --> 00:46:10,230 the J novela hello captain j Steve 1164 00:46:15,410 --> 00:46:12,510 novella hi there Bob novella knew 1165 00:46:18,220 --> 00:46:15,420 everybody and Cara Santa Maria hello out 1166 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:18,230 a really nice to catch up with you 1167 00:46:22,820 --> 00:46:20,970 friends and over the years we've become 1168 00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:22,830 more like family than friends we see 1169 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:25,050 each other yeah well at least once a 1170 00:46:28,460 --> 00:46:27,090 year over the last eight years we've 1171 00:46:30,890 --> 00:46:28,470 seen each other we've worked together 1172 00:46:33,100 --> 00:46:30,900 quite a lot on at conventions and so 1173 00:46:35,900 --> 00:46:33,110 forth and what a what a happy 1174 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:35,910 collaboration it has been and it 1175 00:46:40,100 --> 00:46:38,010 recharges my batteries every time I get 1176 00:46:42,890 --> 00:46:40,110 to see you guys and of course your 1177 00:46:44,630 --> 00:46:42,900 podcasters I'm reaching 400 but you guys 1178 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:44,640 so what do you must be in the 300s by 1179 00:46:52,070 --> 00:46:48,210 now or something like that Australian 1180 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:52,080 math that's Australian math and by 571 1181 00:46:56,030 --> 00:46:53,970 ed anyone's interest now they had to say 1182 00:46:57,740 --> 00:46:56,040 it and let me say one thing about the 1183 00:46:59,510 --> 00:46:57,750 skeptics guide to the universe it's 1184 00:47:02,540 --> 00:46:59,520 amazing and I'm sure you've heard this 1185 00:47:05,180 --> 00:47:02,550 before from other people how many people 1186 00:47:06,740 --> 00:47:05,190 come to the skeptic zone because they 1187 00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:06,750 heard about the skeptic zone on the 1188 00:47:11,240 --> 00:47:09,570 skeptics guide the universe but also how 1189 00:47:13,010 --> 00:47:11,250 many people front up at australian 1190 00:47:14,660 --> 00:47:13,020 skeptics events like skeptics in the pub 1191 00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:14,670 or whatever because they've heard 1192 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:16,800 something by listening to the skeptics 1193 00:47:20,330 --> 00:47:18,330 guide to the universe you must have a 1194 00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:20,340 lot of listeners in Australia we 1195 00:47:26,390 --> 00:47:24,210 absolutely Australia is in our top five 1196 00:47:27,950 --> 00:47:26,400 you know countries of origin of our 1197 00:47:29,510 --> 00:47:27,960 listeners and that's just you know I 1198 00:47:32,300 --> 00:47:29,520 think by population they may be the most 1199 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:32,310 because the in there pretty good in 1200 00:47:35,630 --> 00:47:33,930 absolute numbers but you know you guys 1201 00:47:37,790 --> 00:47:35,640 are pretty sparsely populated down there 1202 00:47:39,020 --> 00:47:37,800 so I think if you do a per capita you 1203 00:47:41,210 --> 00:47:39,030 may be 1204 00:47:43,370 --> 00:47:41,220 our number one listening country we do 1205 00:47:45,350 --> 00:47:43,380 get a lot of emails people in Australia 1206 00:47:47,540 --> 00:47:45,360 as well it wouldn't surprise me at all 1207 00:47:49,430 --> 00:47:47,550 and we fondly remember your visits to 1208 00:47:51,770 --> 00:47:49,440 Australia what a great time we have when 1209 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:51,780 you come when you can toss trips better 1210 00:47:55,970 --> 00:47:54,090 we had a ball yeah so great you guys to 1211 00:47:57,890 --> 00:47:55,980 host a terrible such yet the last time 1212 00:48:00,050 --> 00:47:57,900 when you Richard when you drove us to a 1213 00:48:01,490 --> 00:48:00,060 Canberra was awesome that's something I 1214 00:48:03,590 --> 00:48:01,500 will never forget I was the bus driver 1215 00:48:05,630 --> 00:48:03,600 for the skeptics guide and all the way 1216 00:48:08,180 --> 00:48:05,640 down to Canberra from Sydney tanned and 1217 00:48:09,710 --> 00:48:08,190 back again the whole time you guys were 1218 00:48:12,650 --> 00:48:09,720 recording and chatting and making a 1219 00:48:14,900 --> 00:48:12,660 video and we're up carrying on that was 1220 00:48:16,490 --> 00:48:14,910 a really memorable thing and every time 1221 00:48:19,010 --> 00:48:16,500 every now and then I had to pinch myself 1222 00:48:24,590 --> 00:48:19,020 and I was thinking to myself don't crash 1223 00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:24,600 don't crash dad is the guy that killed 1224 00:48:31,970 --> 00:48:29,250 the pot yes you would be hunted arrested 1225 00:48:34,220 --> 00:48:31,980 because our dear brother just from our 1226 00:48:36,590 --> 00:48:34,230 moms this that's good and idea brother 1227 00:48:40,010 --> 00:48:36,600 George rob was on the bus as well yep 1228 00:48:41,870 --> 00:48:40,020 Georgia so glad he came with us that was 1229 00:48:45,410 --> 00:48:41,880 that was fantastic and anyway to 1230 00:48:47,420 --> 00:48:45,420 congratulations for you st you for doing 1231 00:48:49,460 --> 00:48:47,430 what we all do for year after year after 1232 00:48:51,380 --> 00:48:49,470 year it's no small effort Richard 1233 00:48:53,180 --> 00:48:51,390 congratulations to you for hitting 400 1234 00:48:56,270 --> 00:48:53,190 any milestone like that is just really 1235 00:48:57,860 --> 00:48:56,280 really impressed there yeah rare and I 1236 00:49:00,020 --> 00:48:57,870 think you got you guys owe me a new 1237 00:49:01,430 --> 00:49:00,030 bumper I used to play one but that was 1238 00:49:03,170 --> 00:49:01,440 about five years ago and you haven't 1239 00:49:05,540 --> 00:49:03,180 given me a new one since i'll leave that 1240 00:49:07,790 --> 00:49:05,550 up to you Jay come on I really i'll do 1241 00:49:11,540 --> 00:49:07,800 out i will have you won in about a week 1242 00:49:13,430 --> 00:49:11,550 i look forward to it but folks skipped 1243 00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:13,440 exam fans if you don't listen to the st 1244 00:49:17,810 --> 00:49:15,570 you what's wrong with you listen to the 1245 00:49:20,060 --> 00:49:17,820 su there they're almost as good as the 1246 00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:20,070 skeptics aren't i'll have fun i will try 1247 00:49:25,730 --> 00:49:23,250 we keep trying but for now thanks for 1248 00:49:28,190 --> 00:49:25,740 the briefly appearing on the show 400 1249 00:49:37,900 --> 00:49:28,200 skeptics guide to the universe thank you 1250 00:49:42,049 --> 00:49:39,370 you 1251 00:49:44,089 --> 00:49:42,059 Australian skeptics here in Sydney have 1252 00:49:47,169 --> 00:49:44,099 yet another dinner meeting coming up on 1253 00:49:49,789 --> 00:49:47,179 the sixth of August how to make skeptics 1254 00:49:50,779 --> 00:49:49,799 even more attractive this when your 1255 00:49:52,849 --> 00:49:50,789 thoughts companies couldn't be 1256 00:49:55,159 --> 00:49:52,859 attractive enough are there gender 1257 00:49:59,179 --> 00:49:55,169 differences in perceptions of attraction 1258 00:50:01,839 --> 00:49:59,189 what are we looking for in a potential 1259 00:50:05,029 --> 00:50:01,849 mate can you find someone attractive 1260 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:05,039 online and what other features make us 1261 00:50:10,969 --> 00:50:07,890 more or less attractive even skeptics 1262 00:50:12,529 --> 00:50:10,979 dr. Martin graph reader in psychology at 1263 00:50:14,779 --> 00:50:12,539 the University of New South Wales will 1264 00:50:17,359 --> 00:50:14,789 be a guest speaker at the next Sydney 1265 00:50:19,459 --> 00:50:17,369 skeptics dinner you look at the human 1266 00:50:21,979 --> 00:50:19,469 attraction and while attraction is 1267 00:50:24,259 --> 00:50:21,989 important to us you also look at gender 1268 00:50:26,809 --> 00:50:24,269 differences in attraction and features 1269 00:50:28,699 --> 00:50:26,819 that men and women find attractive and 1270 00:50:31,549 --> 00:50:28,709 the differences between males and 1271 00:50:34,399 --> 00:50:31,559 females in what they seek in a romantic 1272 00:50:36,889 --> 00:50:34,409 partner not to mention do opposites 1273 00:50:39,079 --> 00:50:36,899 really attract or does the color of 1274 00:50:42,859 --> 00:50:39,089 clothes or the way we smell or who we 1275 00:50:45,349 --> 00:50:42,869 are make any difference dr. Martin graph 1276 00:50:47,449 --> 00:50:45,359 is an Associate Fellow of the British 1277 00:50:49,849 --> 00:50:47,459 Psychological Society and child 1278 00:50:51,999 --> 00:50:49,859 psychologist and as a visiting scholar 1279 00:50:54,109 --> 00:50:52,009 to Deakin University in Melbourne it 1280 00:50:57,139 --> 00:50:54,119 sounds like an interesting evening and 1281 00:50:59,599 --> 00:50:57,149 the website says dress casual but 1282 00:51:01,549 --> 00:50:59,609 attractive and you can book for that 1283 00:51:05,209 --> 00:51:01,559 dinner those folks in Sydney coming up 1284 00:51:27,950 --> 00:51:05,219 on the 6th of August by visiting wwc 1285 00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:34,190 Oh Richard I years on and show 400 is 1286 00:51:38,089 --> 00:51:36,450 done and dusted how do you feel I feel 1287 00:51:42,770 --> 00:51:38,099 better after the peanut butter sandwich 1288 00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:42,780 I feel bloated it's a good it feels good 1289 00:51:46,910 --> 00:51:45,690 such an amazing thing that this little 1290 00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:46,920 thing that we started all those years 1291 00:51:52,609 --> 00:51:50,160 ago is that such longevity you know and 1292 00:51:54,859 --> 00:51:52,619 so many things have changed along the 1293 00:51:56,210 --> 00:51:54,869 years I've you all to all the reporters 1294 00:51:58,130 --> 00:51:56,220 over the years who have come and gone 1295 00:52:02,900 --> 00:51:58,140 and reporters come and go because they 1296 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:02,910 baby but I have live a big data thing to 1297 00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:04,290 all the reporters in the current couple 1298 00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:06,530 reporters i think i think is fantastic 1299 00:52:11,630 --> 00:52:08,970 and now new report of course dr. 1300 00:52:15,140 --> 00:52:11,640 Cassandra Perryman hey hey hey yes vote 1301 00:52:17,510 --> 00:52:15,150 on yeah but I have to also add that in 1302 00:52:20,599 --> 00:52:17,520 the last eight years it certainly has 1303 00:52:22,490 --> 00:52:20,609 been quite a victorious time for the 1304 00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:22,500 skeptic movement yeah because there have 1305 00:52:28,099 --> 00:52:25,770 been actual laws and proceedings and 1306 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:28,109 happy faces that come out and it's been 1307 00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:30,890 as a result of people with a skeptical 1308 00:52:36,500 --> 00:52:34,290 mindset challenging the status quo of 1309 00:52:37,970 --> 00:52:36,510 the thinking of pseudoscience and all 1310 00:52:40,370 --> 00:52:37,980 the other claims things like 1311 00:52:43,430 --> 00:52:40,380 chiropractic and and it's been it's 1312 00:52:45,140 --> 00:52:43,440 actually made it to to legislation and 1313 00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:45,150 then to government levels yeah it's 1314 00:52:47,839 --> 00:52:46,770 really so actually it's really good 1315 00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:47,849 contributing to make a difference yeah 1316 00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:49,410 we're not just sitting here but just 1317 00:52:53,150 --> 00:52:51,330 having fun we are having fun but I i 1318 00:52:55,010 --> 00:52:53,160 well how interview today with Michael 1319 00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:55,020 Marshall is a wonderful example of that 1320 00:52:59,870 --> 00:52:56,970 another putting pressure in the right 1321 00:53:01,579 --> 00:52:59,880 areas and getting results yeah yeah that 1322 00:53:03,589 --> 00:53:01,589 that's where it's happening but I was 1323 00:53:05,990 --> 00:53:03,599 just before we started recording I was 1324 00:53:08,390 --> 00:53:06,000 just showing you that how things have 1325 00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:08,400 progressed since we've started and I can 1326 00:53:14,180 --> 00:53:11,010 actually do the whole show now editing 1327 00:53:16,670 --> 00:53:14,190 wine if I care to I can do it all on my 1328 00:53:20,150 --> 00:53:16,680 iPad really it's insane isn't it why I 1329 00:53:22,070 --> 00:53:20,160 mean I've got there it's now so advanced 1330 00:53:24,020 --> 00:53:22,080 that I can do recording to editing to 1331 00:53:27,589 --> 00:53:24,030 sounds manipulation and to finish 1332 00:53:29,780 --> 00:53:27,599 product well so next time on a long bus 1333 00:53:31,609 --> 00:53:29,790 trip somewhere Wow the fig eight years 1334 00:53:34,460 --> 00:53:31,619 ago we stabbed like an eight ton truck 1335 00:53:37,070 --> 00:53:34,470 full of gear did we have those hard 1336 00:53:39,050 --> 00:53:37,080 drives at least way about 400 years they 1337 00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:39,060 did and we have to wind them up remember 1338 00:53:42,350 --> 00:53:39,450 that 1339 00:53:45,350 --> 00:53:42,360 the USB sticks is the size of a large 1340 00:53:47,300 --> 00:53:45,360 mobile phone it was it was an incredible 1341 00:53:49,370 --> 00:53:47,310 time but we used to do is to get through 1342 00:53:51,350 --> 00:53:49,380 it then we'd somehow we did but now it's 1343 00:53:54,950 --> 00:53:51,360 just so much and the reel-to-reel tape 1344 00:53:57,850 --> 00:53:54,960 now we didn't use reel-to-reel tape yeah 1345 00:54:01,250 --> 00:53:57,860 well it has been a time of change and 1346 00:54:03,110 --> 00:54:01,260 I'm sure we'll continue to I think I'm 1347 00:54:05,240 --> 00:54:03,120 gonna go back to my crotch I think I 1348 00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:05,250 should open issue and I think you can 1349 00:54:10,250 --> 00:54:08,250 come and defreeze me four sho 500 with 1350 00:54:11,720 --> 00:54:10,260 you it's a pretty rotten day actually 1351 00:54:15,500 --> 00:54:11,730 you should not have unfrozen yourself 1352 00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:15,510 because it's raining it's dry I drove 1353 00:54:19,430 --> 00:54:17,130 over here today from my place to the 1354 00:54:20,930 --> 00:54:19,440 studios here and the drivers in this 1355 00:54:22,940 --> 00:54:20,940 weather don't know how to drive it 1356 00:54:25,310 --> 00:54:22,950 here's a message a special message for 1357 00:54:29,900 --> 00:54:25,320 you Sydney drivers out there hey stop 1358 00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:29,910 mutt sign hey stop sign means stop thank 1359 00:54:34,670 --> 00:54:32,610 you well done we say that in mind well 1360 00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:34,680 let's let's get on with it let's let his 1361 00:54:39,860 --> 00:54:37,170 to another hundred another 5000 episode 1362 00:54:41,780 --> 00:54:39,870 have a five thousand all the very best 1363 00:54:49,130 --> 00:54:41,790 thanks for listening and we'll see you 1364 00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:49,140 next time see you Stefan bye you've been 1365 00:54:54,290 --> 00:54:50,810 listening to the skeptics own podcast 1366 00:54:57,380 --> 00:54:54,300 visit our website at wwc a petting zoo 1367 00:55:01,250 --> 00:54:57,390 TV for contacts an archive of all 1368 00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:01,260 episodes since 2008 and our online store 1369 00:55:06,250 --> 00:55:03,570 please support the skeptic zone by 1370 00:55:09,260 --> 00:55:06,260 following us on twitter at skeptic zone 1371 00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:09,270 liking us on facebook and leaving a 1372 00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:12,330 review on iTunes you can also show your 1373 00:55:18,170 --> 00:55:15,210 support by subscribing via paypal or as 1374 00:55:19,940 --> 00:55:18,180 little as ninety-nine cents a week the 1375 00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:19,950 skeptic zone is an independent 1376 00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:21,570 production the views and opinions 1377 00:55:26,090 --> 00:55:24,000 expressed on the skeptic zone and not 1378 00:55:50,690 --> 00:55:26,100 necessarily those of Australian skeptics 1379 00:55:50,700 --> 00:55:58,050 Oh 1380 00:56:02,500 --> 00:56:00,700 it's in Queensland the state of 1381 00:56:05,010 --> 00:56:02,510 Queensland it's our new reporter dr. 1382 00:56:07,750 --> 00:56:05,020 Cassandra Perryman so exciting hello 1383 00:56:10,780 --> 00:56:07,760 Costello a charity let me do that again 1384 00:56:18,270 --> 00:56:10,790 is our new reporter dr. Cassandra